Boat deck resurfacing

[Cam Houseman]

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As we all know, physics don't support the v-break theory. However, there were survivors on the boat deck that felt it rising.
But 2nd officer Lightoller saw the ship take a dive while he was at or near the starboard side of the ship.
“The ship then took a dive, and I turned face forward and also took a dive.“
How many people felt the deck rising, and what side of the boat deck were they?
Would it be possible for the bow to roll to starboard instead of rising entirely?

probably the ship returning from the list

 

[Michael-McDonnell]

As we all know, physics don't support the v-break theory. However, there were survivors on the boat deck that felt it rising.
But 2nd officer Lightoller saw the ship take a dive while he was at or near the starboard side of the ship.
“The ship then took a dive, and I turned face forward and also took a dive.“
How many people felt the deck rising, and what side of the boat deck were they?
Would it be possible for the bow to roll to starboard instead of rising entirely?

They talk about this in the book On A Sea Of Glass where the bow recovered momentarily after returning from a port list to an even keel, survivors May Futrelle, Ida Hippach and Carrie Chaffee say in their accounts the bow rose up but said the ship writhed, if they factor in the ship returning from a port list to an even keel and the bow recovering momentarily, from a certain distance away from the ship it would look like the bow rose out of the water.

 

[Michael-McDonnell]

Perhaps, but if we ignore the timings for a moment, he claims at first she had a list to starboard, then the list shifted to port later.

We know this is true, even if his timings are out.

He claims that water covered the bow area at around 1:25 however the bow went under later than this so it would seem what Thayer has written is essentially correct only the times that they occured are off.

He also confims the ship was going down by the head.

His blow or buckle upwards line is interesting as well because if you look at the definition of "buckle" it means to bend under strain so if we substitue the term buckle for bend upwards it would suggest the middle part of the ship went up as she broke which would chime with the stern falling and the middle part rising upwards as the bow sank.

Buckle upwards sounds like the Mengot theory with he bending of the keel shoving the decks upwards, even in Mengot's diagram and On A Sea Of Glass the rear end of the bow moves up ever so slightly due to the middle being pushed up.

 

[Michael-McDonnell]

Actually we had that several times on different threats on ET and you are posting same stuff Aaron did.



Did they all really SEE the bow rising?
Here are the ones in the list who did not "see" the bow rise up. They only mentioned how the part or deck they were rose or only mentioned the ship breaking in several pieces.

Eugene Daly - "The Titanic gave a lurch downwards and we were in the water up to our hips. She rose again slightly, and I succeeded in cutting the second rope which held her stern"

William Mellors - "Suddenly, her nose (bow) on which I was on, seemed to suddenly rise from underneath the water and I and a few more that were close by cut the ropes that held the boat to the falls (davits)"

Richard Williams - "I felt the deck come up under me and I found we were high and dry"

Jack Thayer - "Suddenly the whole superstructure of the ship appeared to split, well forward to midship, and bow or buckle upwards."

James McGann - "The ship broke into three. First the bow detached itself, then the middle disappeared, with a hiss like the sound of a thousand blazing rockets, and then finally the aft part of the hull dipped over."

Harry Oliver - "Suddenly there was a terrible crash, and the great ship appeared to split in 'twain, if not in three distinct sections."

William Lindsay - "The sight was awful. I shall never forget it, for she broke in three pieces."

And when was this rising of the bow? With the break? After the break? Why was Jack Thayer in the water when he saw the ship breaking?

Let us take Mellors. He then continued:
"There was suddenly an explosion and I found myself whizzing through the water at an awful pace, having been blown away by the explosion. When I came to my senses a few minutes after I looked round and suddenly saw the ship part in the middle with the stern standing several hundred feet out of the water, at this time I was trying to swim away from her, but could not get more than a few yards away and I had as much as I could do to hold myself up from being dragged down with her. But the suction was not so great as I imagined it would be."

How did the people still on board were able to run aft if bow and stern were separated? Gracie mentioned how the people run aft, Joughin on A Deck followed a mass of people running aft. No mention of a gap.

There are errors in slang and faulty memories in these accounts. Aaron1912 edited survivor accounts and misread stuff.

 

[Michael-McDonnell]

Some people don't know the difference between the front part of the ship and the back. (bow and stern respectively)

And it's possible that debris like the Grand Staircase and the aft end of the bow briefly re-surfaced after the breakup, but for only a few minutes before sinking again, so people weren't quite sure what they'd seen in the dark.

Which explains why the famous Thayer drawing shows the bow inaccurately completely re-surfacing after the breakup.

Jack Thayer did mention somewhere that the Skidmore sketch was not an accurate depiction of what he told Skidmore.

 

[Dr. Wacky]

View attachment 49075
View attachment 49076

Once the bow detaches, water pours in from the back and evens the trim of the bow and the bow corrects her port list. The prow is still mostly dry at this point.

My main question is this. What caused the bow to detach? I've always though for the bow to buckle off like that was to have water pushing the bow down causing a break like this. The stern (still with buoyancy) wanting to push back up.