Did Lightoller's panic cost lives?

[William Oakes]

What heroic actions did Lightoller do to make him a hero? What risks did he take to save others? What courageous undertakings was he involved with?

Wilde told Lightoller to get in a boat and he replied, "Not Likely!" and continued trying to ready one of the collapsible's.
He gave up the chance to save himself when he could have taken it, and he continued working to save the lives of others.
The man not only loaded boats, which was obviously physically taxing as the ships surgeon, O'Loughlin, cracked a joke, something to the effect of, "Are you warm Lights?" Lightoller was ringing wet with sweat, in spite of 32 degree temps... and while doing all of this, he is maintaining crowd control, and keeping his cool while the ship is literally sinking out from under him.
It is pretty obvious that I am in the minority among this group, but that matters very little to me. I've never held the goal of being popular or going along with the crowd.
I base my opinion on Lightoller being a hero, on the facts of how he conducted himself on that night.
A good read about Lightoller is The Odessey of C.H. Lightoller, by Patrick Stenson.
Contrary to what one of the previous posters inferred about me, I don't base my opinions on Hollywood movies.
I've read and studied this ship for over 50 years, just like many of you have.
I'm not a kid and I'm not new to Titanic.
In my opinion, Charles H. Lightoller was and is a hero.

 

[Jim Currie]

Forgive them mark, "for they know-not what th"ey are talking about.

On a British Merchant vessel, there are no arbitrary decision during the early part of an emergency... that only happens when things start to get out of hand th en, as Captain S mith is alleged to have said "save yourselves"
Wilde was in charge of the entire boat loading operation under th direction of the captain. Lightoller was in charge of the port side and Murdoch, the starboard side. They all did as they were ordered to do by Wilde s conduit for the captain. They word "hero" today is over-used. You are not a hero if you carry out your duty as ordered. You are only a hero if you act above and beyond your duty and that action saves lives. History shows us that there are 2 kinds of hero...both ususally end up dead. One takes others with him or her.
Incidentally, you will recall that 5th officer Lowe would not launch a boat without a direct order from the captain

 

[William Oakes]

Would you agree then, that Lightoller probably should have died that night, and that he did in fact "Cheat Death" as he had done so many times previously in his career at sea?
And would again later.

 

[Jim Currie]

Anyone who was submerged in that water for any time that morning should have died of hypothermia. Lightoller was like a cat with 9 lives. Actally, lightoller was the kind of man superstitious sailors avoided salling with. I would not be surprised to learn that his past adventures and near-misses had brand him by some as a Jonah. He seems to have been the type of man whom we used to say would "Fall in to a cesspool and come out diamond studded and smelling of roses" Unfortunalely, the luck of such men seldom if ever rubs off.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Wilde told Lightoller to get in a boat and he replied, "Not Likely!" and continued trying to ready one of the collapsible's.

And that is Lightoller's made up version in his book
Steward Hardy mentioned that he got into the boat (no order from Wilde) and only left as there were to less people to lower the forward fall. Aside from that Lightoller went into the collapsible boat himself but previously ordered ABS Lucas out of it.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Wilde told Lightoller to get in a boat and he replied, "Not Likely!" and continued trying to ready one of the collapsible's.
He gave up the chance to save himself when he could have taken it, and he continued working to save the lives of others.
The man not only loaded boats, which was obviously physically taxing as the ships surgeon, O'Loughlin, cracked a joke, something to the effect of, "Are you warm Lights?" Lightoller was ringing wet with sweat, in spite of 32 degree temps..

I have always had trouble believing that "not likely!" quote. Had a slight B-movie feel to it but then there were none of those in 1912. Pity that Wilde did not survive to substantiate it.

Or for that matter William O'Loughlin to corroborate how profusely Lightoller was sweating.

 

[William Oakes]

Anyone who was submerged in that water for any time that morning should have died of hypothermia. Lightoller was like a cat with 9 lives. Actally, lightoller was the kind of man superstitious sailors avoided salling with. I would not be surprised to learn that his past adventures and near-misses had brand him by some as a Jonah. He seems to have been the type of man whom we used to say would "Fall in to a cesspool and come out diamond studded and smelling of roses" Unfortunalely, the luck of such men seldom if ever rubs off.

I never heard anyone refer to him as a Jonah.
The cat had survival skills.
Indeed.

 

[William Oakes]

And that is Lightoller's made up version in his book
Steward Hardy mentioned that he got into the boat (no order from Wilde) and only left as there were to less people to lower the forward fall. Aside from that Lightoller went into the collapsible boat himself but previously ordered ABS Lucas out of it.

Pure conjecture on your part.

 

[William Oakes]

I have always had trouble believing that "not likely!" quote. Had a slight B-movie feel to it but then there were none of those in 1912. Pity that Wilde did not survive to substantiate it.

Or for that matter William O'Loughlin to corroborate how profusely Lightoller was sweating.

That is too bad.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Pure conjecture on your part.

No it is based on facts and testimony of Hardy and Lucas. Have you read them?
Actually there are many crew members who contradict Lightollers version and different claims.

 

[William Oakes]

Yes, indeed I have.
I was referring to your comment about "Made up version."
That Sir is pure conjecture.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Oh really?
We have Lightoller claiming that Wilde ordered him into the collapsible which he denied the order. Yet we have two other crew members who in 1912 did not mentioned that Wilde ordered him into the boat.

So Titanic hit & sunk on 12th April 1912? Right?! That is in his book and as by you he is right there he must be right on everything else.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

For those interested, this is what Lightoller had years later in his book;
“As we were ready for lowering the Chief came over to my side of the deck and, seeing me in the boat and no seaman available said, “You go with her, Lightoller.” Praises be, I had just sufficient sense to say, “Not damn likely,” and jump back on board;”

And this is what steward Hardy said in 1912 at Day 7 of the American Inquiry;

Mr. Hardy: When the boat was full, Mr. Lightoller was in the boat with me; and the chief officer came along and asked if the boat was full, and he said yes. He said he would step out himself and make room for somebody else, and he stepped back on board the ship and asked if I could row. I told him I could, and I went away in that boat.
… The forward part of the collapsible boat was lowered, but there was nobody there to lower the afterend, which you will find in Mr. Bright's evidence. Mr. Lightoller stepped from the collapsible boat aboard the ship again and did it himself.

No mention that Wilde ordered Lightoller to go with that boat as Lightoller claimed later.
And it is the same boat where he first ordered Lucas out.

1511. Then finally did you go in a boat? – Well, I got in a boat and I got ordered out by Mr. Lightoller. That was the last boat that left.
1516. Is that the one you got into? – I got into her and got ordered out.
1517. Who ordered you out? – Mr. Lightoller.

Lucas finally got back on board collapsible D.

 

[Mark Baber]

Moderator's hat in:

Three unnecessarily personal messages have been removed. This discussion is very close to being terminated.

Moderator's hat off.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

My apologies to our new member, poor Haashir Ahmad who unintentionally appears to have opened the proverbial Pandora’s Box with one of his earliest posts. Cheer up Haashir, it is not your fault. It was a perfectly legitimate question.
I hope you enjoy being here.