Did Murdoch shoot himself?

[Thomas Krom]

Thomas, I think that my reference to Collins and then "both Murdoch and Moody" in post #281 above was a bit misleading. My handwritten notes about my conversations with Alice Braithwaite and later with Collins' daughter Mary McKee (including a couple of letters from the latter) are somewhere within my "Titanic pile" in the UK; I am stuck in India till at least March 2025 and so I cannot be more specific. But I do remember that Moody was never mentioned directly. Collins reportedly referred to Murdoch and "everyone else" working with him on the Collapsible boat being washed overboard by the wave even as he was pushed underwater himself. But my sentence above was so structured because  we know that Moody was among the several people trying to launch Collapsible A just as the wave hit.

Sorry about the confusion.

No worries about it pal. I’m just interested in any accounts on Moody as I’m working on a biographical video on his life in as much detail as possible. I traced most accounts down of him during the sinking.

 

[Steven Christian]

I figured this account was made up. I just don't remember seeing it before. Haven't had time to go look but am wondering if it showed up in any of the newspapers of the time. How soon did the Murdoch stories start about him dropping the hammer on himself? For the record as I've stated many times before I don't believe Murdoch or any other officer committed sideways that night. Can't prove it but that's the conclusion I've come to over the years. Cheers all.

 

[Thomas Krom]

How soon did the Murdoch stories start about him dropping the hammer on himself?

The rumours of an officer committing suicide as the Titanic was sinking first appeared on-board the RMS Carpathia. Second cabin passenger Carlos Heard mentioned in his interview to the New York World dated the 19th of April 1912:

Officers loading some of the boats drew revolvers, but in most cases the men, both passengers and crew, behaved in a way that called for no such restraint. Revolver shots, heard by many persons shortly before the end of the Titanic, caused many rumors. One was that Capt. Smith shot himself, another was that First Officer Murdoch ended his life. Smith, Murdoch and Sixth Officer Moody are known to have been lost. The surviving officers, Lightoller, Pitman, Boxhall and Lowe, have made no statement. Members of the crew discredit all reports of suicide, and say Capt. Smith remained on the bridge until just before the ship sank, leaping only after those on the decks had been washed away. It is also related that when a cook later sought to pull him aboard a lifeboat, he exclaimed, ‘Let me go!’ and, pulling away, went down.

Later Hurd reported in the St Louis Post-Dispatch which was published at an unknown date:

Revolver shots heard shortly before the Titanic went down caused many rumors, one that Capt. Smith had shot himself, another that First Officer Murdoch had ended his life, but members of the crew discredit these rumors. Capt. Smith was last seen on the bridge just before the ship sank, leaping only after the decks had been washed away. What became of the men with life preservers was the question asked by many since the disaster. Many of those with life preservers were seen to go down despite the preservers and dead bodies floated on the surface as the last boats moved away.

First cabin passenger Charles Milton Hutchinson (1881-1969) reported in the New York American edition which was published on the 19th April 1912:

When the lifeboats became fewer and the passengers realized their danger, panic reigned and the captain shot himself.

Later on in the same article he mentioned:

Captain Smith of the Titanic had been promoted to his office as a mark of appreciation and was taking his last trip before retiring, he having reached the age limit, sixty years. Many say he shot himself when he found there was no hope for his boat.

First cabin passenger Eleanor Barnard Danforth (1889-1974) provided the following story to the Portland Evening Express & Daily Advertiser edition which was published on the 23rd of April 1912:

I notice that there have been various stories afloat that Captain Smith shot himself just before the Titanic went down, but this does not appear to be the opinion of a great many of the survivors with whom I talked on the Carpathia. The majority of them say that he jumped at the last moment.

First cabin passenger Dr. James Finley Kemp also told the Boston Globe edition which was published on the 19th of April 1912:

Survivors told Kemp that the Titanic sank gradually and that it finally lunged slightly, after which the bow sank and the stern rose high in the air. Kemp also said that a rescued boy told him that Captain Smith shot himself through the head just as the ship was sinking. The boy jumped overboard and was later picked up.

First cabin passenger May Rule Birkhead (1882-1941) told the New York Herald and St Louis Republic editions that were published on the19th of April 1912:

I am also told that Captain Smith of the Titanic shot himself with a pistol as the ship was going down. On the other hand, I have heard it contradicted, and it is said he went down with the ship, as did the second officer.

First cabin passenger Carlton Thomas Phelps (1867-1940) reported to the North Adams Transcript edition published on the 20th of April 1912

It is reported by the passengers that the captain and first mate both shot themselves and went down with their boat. However, no one seems to be sure about this.

First cabin passenger Dr. C A M Bernard reported to the New York Evening World edition published on the 19th April 1912

I am sure that Captain Smith was in his cabin smoking a cigar with two friends when he was shunted out of his seat. The ship seemed to rise out of the water, grind on something, like a row boat striking a rock, tremble for a moment, and then slide back again into the water with an enormous splash. He must have known then that the terror of the seas had crossed his path. With his other two experiences of ill fortune, he likely did what other captains have done – found solace in a pistol shot.

Waiter Harold Hewitt Lee (1890-1974) told the Brooklyn Daily Eagle edition of the 19th of April 1912:

Lee stated that he had taken in four members of the Titanic’s crew in his bunk, and among them was a quartermaster who saw Captain Smith calmly walk to the chart room, draw a revolver from his pocket and fire a shot through the right side of his head. This was done, Lee said, after the lifeboats had all left the doomed vessel and Smith was satisfied that he had performed his duty. The ship’s printer further stated that he had been told by the Titanic survivors that twice previous to killing himself, the captain had been found about in the act of taking his life. On the bridge of the Titanic, according to Lee, Chief Officer Wilde snatched the revolver from Smith’s hand and blew his own brains out.

However, in my view, the most important story from the Carpathia on this topic remains Dr. Frank Hamlin Blackmarr (1888-1958) his story. Blackmarr was a first cabin passenger on the Carpathia and told the following to the Chicago Daily Tribune edition on the 20th of April 1912:

The only panic at the beginning, as I understand it, was in the steerage, where there were many persons who lacked self-control. There was no shooting, as I learn, except that a steerage passenger told me he saw an officer trying to control the maddened rush by shooting two persons. The same officer shot himself a minute later.

Who was this passenger one might ask, the personal documents of Dr. Blackmar reveal that it was Third class passenger Eugene Patrick Daly (1883-1965) who described in letters to home he saw an officer shot himself too, albeit he didn’t provided a name. According to Blackmarr Daly broke down crying several times during the recollections


While I don't deem most of these accounts reliable, it points out that the suicide likely wasn't a press invention. I'd gladly collect some passenger statements later on when time allows it.

For the record as I've stated many times before I don't believe Murdoch or any other officer committed sideways that night. Can't prove it but that's the conclusion I've come to over the years. Cheers all.

You likely know my view on it, while I believe we'll never discover for a fact what happened it remains hard for me to ignore the statements that do mention something happening. From George Rheims, Eugene Daly and John Collins from witnessing the shooting first hand to Peter Daly and Victor Sunderland mentioning they heard on-board the Titanic that an officer had shot himself to Richard Williams hearing gunshots near the final plunge coming from the starboard side.

I personally do not believe either captain Smith or first officer Murdoch were involved in this shooting/suicide however when looking at the evidence. In the coming months I may have something new on the table, this being the original letter from George Rheims in French and translated to English.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I don't believe Murdoch or any other officer committed sideways that night

Like Seumas and yourself, I would like to believe that too but there have been so many related statements from widely different survivors that it would be difficult to dismiss that something involving shooting happened during the final 7 or 8 mintes of the sinking. Personally, I would like to go no further in my own speculation.

I believe we'll never discover for a fact what happened it remains hard for me to ignore the statements that do mention something happening.

Yes, we will never know now but I agree that we cannot ignore statements from so many accounts. In Appendix K (Shots In The Dark) of On A Sea Of Glass, the authors have looked at this from every possible angle in an unbiased manner, devoting over 16 pages to the analysis but - understandably - do not form any conclusions themselves.

I personally do not believe either captain Smith or first officer Murdoch were involved in this shooting/suicide

So do I. With regard to Murdoch, my research into John Collins started back in 1985 when I met my first source Alice Braithwaite who had met the former scullion as a young girl in the 1930s. But what she told me was largely what Collins told a fellow WW1 POW named Clarence Woods in Germany and was entirely related to the scullion's familiarity (which does not mean a personal acquaintance) with Murdoch and being quite certain that the 1/O was still working on Collapsible A when the wave hit and washed several people, including Murdoch, overboard. During that interview, the shooting incident was only very briefly and marginally referred to as a separate event that had happened a few minutes before.

The main thing that related to Wilde that I learned from Mrs Braithwaite was that Collins briefly helped with preparation and/or loading of Lifeboat #16 but his hopes of getting a place in it were dashed when the "Senior Mate, the one next to the Captain" declined. There were apparently already too many crew members along with passengers around the aft port boats at the time and Collins left.

Later in my reserach and after several phone conversations with and a couple of letters from Mary McKee, John Collins' daughter, I was told a bit more about both Collins 'missing' a place in Lifeboat #16 and the later the shooting incident. But this information came in fits and spurts over a long time because Mrs McKee was not very interested in the Titanic disaster and I struggled to get information out of her. She told me that she had never known her late father very well because she was still a young girl when he passed on in 1941, but volunteered that her older brother (Benjamin, I think), living in the US at the time, knew a lot more. At my request she agreed to give his contact details but that never happened before we lost touch; instead, she passed on snippets that she learned from him and this included a mention of the shooting incident. From what I could reconstruct from scribbled notes over the years, it seemed like this happened while Collins still had control of the child he was helping (one of Alma Palsson's kids?) and for some reason he and the steward with him (who was helping another child) turned around from approaching Collapsible A, mistakenly believing that there was another lifeboat being loaded a bit aft. When I learned that, I had already seen the 1989 (UK broadcast, not sure if it was live) TV interview that included Walter Lord and his revised opinion about the officer involved in the shooting incident. So, I asked Mrs McKee a leading question if the officer had been the one her father had referred to as "the senior mate, the one next to the Captain" and she only said something to the effect of "it might have been". That was that.

But I think the Walter Lord angle is quite significant. As many of you know, in his 1986 book The Night Lives On that was published less than a year after discovery of the Titanic's wreck, Lord conisidered the possibility that the officer involved in the shooting incident had been Murdoch. However, by the time he gave that TV interview a few years later, Lord appeared convinced that it was Wilde. The interviewer did not dwell too much on that subject and so Lord did not elaborate. I saw it on TV in the UK but have a feeling that it was an American broadcast; I am sure that there must be others here on ET (those who are 50+ now) from either side of the Pond who saw that interview and I would be very grateful if they could post what they recall.

 

[Steven Christian]

Arun said: "Yes, we will never know now but I agree that we cannot ignore statements from so many accounts."

It's why I have a hard time believing the accounts. There's so many different ones. Just about every officer aboard has been reported by someone either killing themselves or shooting someone else. I believe there were warning shots fired that night and then the stories just took off taking on a life of their own and grew and grew. But thats my conclusion. I respect yours and others if they came to different one. It's something I don't think will ever be proven beyond a doubt. I'm sure most here have seen the list below. But well over 100 different accounts listed. There's probably more. I know how stories can grow out of all proportion. Cheers all.

Suicide Witnesses| William Murdoch

Investigates the life and the mystery surrounding Titanic's First Officer, William McMaster Murdoch with regularly updated research.

www.williammurdoch.net

P.S...I didn't mean to get back into all this as it has been covered enough over the years. I was just curious about the Moody account I came across because I don't recall seeing that one before. Even though I'm sure it was fabricated.

 

[Luca Gelmetti]

Reflecting on the Titanic’s final moments through the firsthand accounts of Eugene Daly, Laura Francatelli, and George Rheims brings us closer to the chaos, fear, and desperation of that night. When considering whether an officer’s suicide truly occurred, as these survivors suggest, I find myself cautious to assert it as historical fact, though I am inclined to lend it credence. These personal letters and testimonies were not intended for the press, nor were they shared to make sensational claims. They reflect, instead, private attempts to make sense of trauma and to recount an event nearly impossible to describe.

Each account offers a coherent picture of an officer who, under overwhelming pressure and circumstances beyond control, resorted to using his weapon to maintain order. Eugene Daly's testimony, for instance, speaks of a gunshot during the scramble for lifeboats—a recollection of two men being shot, and then, potentially, the officer himself. Daly later shared this account consistently in his letter to his sister, and while he may not have seen the actual suicide, he recalls hearing about it, and his details match similar descriptions offered by others. George Rheims, too, recalls this officer who fired on a man trying to board a lifeboat out of turn and then chose to end his own life. Rheims’ words add a tone of respect for what he perceived as the officer’s act of bravery and resignation in the face of such tragedy.

Miss Francatelli’s account, though less direct, adds another voice to this recollection. In her letter, she describes witnessing a “dear, brave officer” who directed a lifeboat to safety before ending his own life. Francatelli’s description may have been from secondhand reports—she was far enough from the Titanic to make direct observation unlikely. Nonetheless, the consistent references to an officer’s final act of self-sacrifice echo among these survivors, suggesting that they were either recalling similar experiences or piecing together stories they heard from others on board.

When examining historical events, especially one as chaotic as the Titanic’s sinking, we naturally seek clarity. Yet in this case, the combination of adrenaline, darkness, and fragmented memories makes absolute certainty difficult. Still, the similarities among these personal testimonies—shared not in public statements, but in personal letters and sworn testimonies—carry a weight that gives them credibility. These survivors, who experienced such terror and heartbreak firsthand, each felt compelled to recount a tale of an officer who, in a final act of leadership, enforced order as long as he could, even at the cost of his life.

In sum, while I can only make conjectures, I believe that such a suicide likely occurred, though the precise details may remain uncertain. These accounts do not seem fabricated or exaggerated for public attention; rather, they reflect the personal and human memory of an unthinkable night. I prefer, therefore, to respect these voices as they are—a testament to the complexity and horror of that tragic event.

 

[Luca Gelmetti]

No worries about it pal. I’m just interested in any accounts on Moody as I’m working on a biographical video on his life in as much detail as possible. I traced most accounts down of him during the sinking.

Hello, Thomas.

Off topic, but what channel will it be uploaded on? I would appreciate knowing it.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Reflecting on the Titanic’s final moments through the firsthand accounts of Eugene Daly, Laura Francatelli, and George Rheims brings us closer to the chaos, fear, and desperation of that night. When considering whether an officer’s suicide truly occurred, as these survivors suggest, I find myself cautious to assert it as historical fact, though I am inclined to lend it credence.

But were they really first hand accounts? Laura Francatelli for instance, was saved on Lifeboat #1, which was launched by Murdoch and Lowe at about 01:05am. Lookout Symons, after helping with loading the lifeboat, was put in charge by Murdoch; Symons testified in both Inquiries and during the American one, was asked about his lifeboat. In response to repeated questioning about it, Symons said that they went back to the spot after the Titanic had gone down but saw no survivors in the water who could be rescued. That suggests to me that Lifeboat #1, with Laura Francatelli in it among others, must have rowed quite some distance away from the sinking Titanic. Given the dark conditions and significant port list at the time, how could Francatelli have recognized the officer who allegedly did the shooting - or even that the man was one of the officers?

Likewise, Eugene Daly's account tof the shooting was first published in a newspaper, the Daily Sketch of 4th May 1912; that paper was a cheap tabloid that was launched only 3 years earlier, and so a lot of distortion and/or embellishment of survivor statements were highly likely. There were reports that during the loading of Collapsible C, some passengers tried to rush the lifeboat and to deter them an officer, probably Murdoch, fired into the air (some reports claim that it was McElroy). I think that was what Daly saw intially but if he saw an officer shoot a couple of people and then himself, it would have been over 10 minutes after Collapsible C was lowered just before 02:00am. Either Daly inadvertantly got mixed up or the reporter who took his story deliberately distorted to to 'fit' the shooting incident that others had reported.

George Rheims was with his brother-in-law Joseph Loring during the final 10 minutes or so of the Titanic's sinking, and while they were likey near the bow, it would he hard to say exactly where they were. To me, Rheims' claim that he saw an officer commit suicide after announcing, “Gentlemen, each man for himself. Good-bye.” sounds very melodramatic and unbelievable. It looks like Rheims and Loring jumped into the sea just ahead of the wave, the same one that knocked overboard several people working to fee Collapsible A, including Murdoch. Rheims lost sight of Loring as he surfaced and cold & numb, somehow managed to swim the the drifting Collapsible A and haul himself on boad.

I agree that the fact that so many survivors mentioned the officer shooting incident, there is a possibility - no more - that it actually happened. Neither Eugene Daly nor George Rheims not anyone else AFAIK claimed that the deck was flooding at the time the shooting incodent occurred. That suggests that if the incdent had really happened, it would have been several minutes before the wave arrived, probaby around 02:12 or 02:13am. Murdoch, Moody and several others were working with Collapsible A at the time and continued to do so till the wave washed them over.

Make what you will of that.

 

[Thomas Krom]

Likewise, Eugene Daly's account tof the shooting was first published in a newspaper, the Daily Sketch of 4th May 1912; that paper was a cheap tabloid that was launched only 3 years earlier, and so a lot of distortion and/or embellishment of survivor statements were highly likely.

While published for the first time, it wasn't the first time it was written down. Dr. Blackmarr was told by Daly himself about the experiences and even recalled it himself in his lost 1915 disposition. Personally I believe those accounts are the most reliable on the matter.

George Rheims was with his brother-in-law Joseph Loring during the final 10 minutes or so of the Titanic's sinking, and while they were likey near the bow, it would he hard to say exactly where they were. To me, Rheims' claim that he saw an officer commit suicide after announcing, “Gentlemen, each man for himself. Good-bye.” sounds very melodramatic and unbelievable. It looks like Rheims and Lording jumped into the sea just ahead of the wave, the same one that knocked overboard several people working to fee Collapsible A, including Murdoch. Rheims lost sight of Loring as he surfaced and cold & numb, somehow managed to swim the the drifting Collapsible A and haul himself on boad.

We know that at least one minute transpired between the shooting Rheims mentioned and to him jumping overboard. He mentioned in his letter, which in some versions is strangely removed, that directly after the shooting he went down to his stateroom on A-deck (A-21 according to his disposition) to retrieve the portrait of his wife. He stated himself this took about a minute. There letter was originally written in French to his wife, and I believe there may be a serious translation error in it that caused a lot of confusion to the timing of the shooting.

I agree if it indeed happen, it happened at around 2:12 too.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I agree if it indeed happen, it happened at around 2:12 too.

Yes if it really happened, which is not certain by any means; but having read, researched and thought about it for years, I agree that we have to consider the number of survivors who reported the incident before dismissing outright the possibility. At the same time, we have also got to filter out most, if not all, of those survivor accounts because they - people like Laura Francatelli - were simply not in any position to be able to see what was going on on the boat deck in those final minutes and so were reporting a version of what they might have heard from other sources....in other words, hearsay.

I belive the possible timeframe and the approximate place that the shooting incident might have taken place is significant, of course assuming that it did take place at all (from now on I'll not mention this "if it really happened" phrase in this post because of boring repetition, but stress here that I am not entirely convinced that it did). Collapsible C was lowered just before 2:00am, say around 01:58am; I believe the big "wave" that started the Titanic's final plunge was between 02:17 and 02:18am and once that hit, nobody would have been in any position to register much about what was going on except from their own immediate surroundings. But if we think about it, that timeframe of 18 or 19 minutes between launch of Collapsible C and the start of the final plunge is quite long, when we take into account the frantic circumstances. A lot of rapid events were taking place and as I have said before, under such stressful situations with a lot of things happening all around one, time stretches out and every minute seems like an eternity.

I agree with Thomas that the shooting incident probably took place between 02:12 and 02:13am, at which stage the higher starboard side of the boat deck was not yet flooded. Third Class passenger and survivor Carl Jansson gave an interview to the New York Times on 19th April 1912, in which he stated that he was somewhat aft almost amidships when the wave hit and people started rushing past him towards the stern; he turned and ran with them but the wave caught them and washed several, including Jansson, overboard (OASOG). After the ship had sunk completely, Jansson was one of the few who managed to swim to the drifting Collapsible A and haul themselves on board.

It is not certain if Jansson himself had said anything about the shooting incidence to the NYT reporter or whether the latter added it on, but either way it got into his story. Jansson appears to have seized upon that and when he gave another interview to the Chicago American on 25th April 1912, he claimed to have actually witnessed an officer committing suicide by shooting himself. Contrary to still some other reports, Jansson had merely said "an officer" and did not name anyone specifically but other newspapers, no doubt seizing on the stories doing rounds at the time, added the name "Officer Murdock" (sic). This is a classic example of how stories about the shooting incident spread and grew in the immediate aftermath of the disaster, no doubt assissted by unscrupulous newspaper reporters.

Two other survivors on Collapsible A were in the forward part of the starboard side during the long, frantic and ultimately vain efforts to free and launch that lifeboat. Another Swedish Third Class passenger August Wennerstrom and Saloon Steward Edward Brown, and AFAIK nether of them mentioned the shooting incident (I stand to be corrected on this if I am wrong). Wennerstrom was a blacklisted journalist and socialist activist in his native Sweden and not one to hold back an opinion. He was very critical about some of his fellow 3rd class passengers who, even in the later stages of the sinking, simply sat around moaning and praying rather than try to help themselves. Later on the boat deck, he tried to help Alma Palsson and her children but failed as he too was washed overboard by the wave; I am guessing that at that stage Wennerstrom was not far away from John Collins and the frantic activity around Collapsible A. Likewise, Steward Brown was involved with the effort to free Collapsible A, which involved unlashing it and pushing it uphill to the edge of the roof of the Captain's Quarters and then down to the boat deck. It was a very difficult task because of the substantial port list at the time and Brown mentioned how Murdoch had ordered the davits cranked back to receive the boat etc. Moody was on the roof with Brown and others and they used a couple of planks (canvas spars?) to get Collapsible A down to the boat deck, damaging it in the process. But thereafter, further progress became almost impossible because a funnel stay was in the way and all concerned were working frantically to free the boat when the wave hit, washing them all overboard. Collins' statements tally with this and strongly indicate that was the moment that Murdoch and Moody, along with several other, were washed away and lost. Brown, who cut the final lashings of Collapsible A, managed to hang on and eventually get into the waterlogged lifeboat while Collins swam to the overturned Collapsible B and was hauled on to the makeshift raft.

I think something about Moody is revelant here. After he got on to the roof of the Captain's Quarters to free Collapsible A, he (or Murdoch) ordered Hemming to get some block and tackle equipment to assist with lowering Collapsible A. But as the work took longer than anticipated, Moody did not use the kit but suggested allowing it to float free, but was overruled (OASOG). My question is, who could have done that overruling? IMO, it was almost certainly Murdoch and that points to the fact the both he and Moody were very much alive several minutes after the shooting incident and still working on freeing Collapsible A till the wave hit. When considered along with Edward Brown's statements, it also almost proves that neither Murdoch nor Moody was the officer involved in the shooting. Based on what was said about the whereabouts of other "candidates" for the officer shooting incident, I could speculate more here, but I'm not going to do it.

IMO, what the likes of Edward Brown, August Wennerstrom and John Collins said and did not say strongly suggests that if such a shooting incident had taken place during the final minutes, it was very likely between 02:12 and 02:13am and the officer involved was neither Murdoch nor Moody. I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

First cabin passenger May Rule Birkhead (1882-1941) told the New York Herald and St Louis Republic editions that were published on the19th of April 1912: I am also told that Captain Smith of the Titanic shot himself with a pistol as the ship was going down. On the other hand, I have heard it contradicted, and it is said he went down with the ship, as did the second officer.

Well, I see no contradiction here; if Captain Smith had shot himself as the ship was going down, he sure would have continued down with it.

The bit about the Second Officer is harder to explain because Lightoller was probably standing somewhere not far from where Birkhead was receiving this report on the Carpathia. Perhaps she was anticipating his later claim that he actually started to go down with the ship but got stuck on a grill and was blown back to the surface by a blast of hot air.

We know that at least one minute transpired between the shooting Rheims mentioned and to him jumping overboard. He mentioned in his letter, which in some versions is strangely removed, that directly after the shooting he went down to his stateroom on A-deck (A-21 according to his disposition) to retrieve the portrait of his wife. He stated himself this took about a minute.

More like 5 or 6 minutes after the alleged shooting, but I think we have to take that statement by George Rheims about returning to his cabin to retrieve his wife’s portrait with a pinch of salt. Even if we accept that his cabin was A-21 – it could have been since Rheims had no reason to lie about that – it would have been a highly risky thing to do. If we assume that the shooting incident was around 02:12am, the by then rapidly sinking Titanic must have been between 7 and 8 degrees down at the head. Look at p118 of Sam Halpern’s Centennial Reappraisal book; there is a profile illustration of what the Titanic must have looked like around 02:15am, by which time it was 10 degrees down at the head. Notice how close the base of the first funnel is to the waterline; if you then check on BB’s deck plans, A-21 was one of the cabins alongside the Nos 5 & 6 boiler casing and of course, one level below the boat deck. By then, that area must have started to flood and with the rate of the Titanic’s sinking obviously increasing, I have major doubts of Rheims would have risked going to his cabin that late.

On that same page Sam goes on to describe how about a minute or two after 02:15am the Titanic lost its longitudinal stability and started to tip over at the bow. That would have been the ‘lurch’ that displaced a huge volume of water and generated the wave that washed sternwards, started the final plunge, knocked almost everyone around Collapsible A overboard and enabled the stuck lifeboat to float free.

As for Carl Jansson, although he had an older brother living and working in Nebraska, he himself had never been to the US as far as I know. Therefore, his knowledge of English might have been limited and that might have influenced what he told the NYT (and understood by the reporter) on 19th April 1912, the day after the Carpathia docked in New York. From OASOG and one or two other snippets that I have read, it appears like during the Titanic’s final minutes, Jansson was further aft closer to amidships while Murdoch and the others were trying to drag Collapsible A into position. At that stage he claimed that he heard shots (but did not claim to have actually seen the shooting) and moments later several other passengers came running towards and past where he was standing.

Following is an excerpt from Carl Jansson’s account from the “Shots In The Dark” chapter of Bill Wormstedt’s Titanic page (which is acknowledged to be referenced from Wyn Craig Wades’ book Titanic: End Of A Dream). It covers some unusual witness accounts late in the sinking not found elsewhere and worth reading.

"Suddenly I heard shrieks and cries amidships, and the sharp reports of several shots. People began to run by me toward the stern of the ship, and as I started to run I realized that the boat was beginning to go down rapidly. There was another report, and then her nose was being buried.] [ A wave struck me and I went overboard."

In that report there appears to be some confusion because two events that IMO occurred around 5 minutes apart appear to be clubbed together. This particular account by Jansson was based on his interview with the New York Times on 19th April and suggests that he merely heard shots fired from further forward to where he was standing and moments later people ran towards and past him. I have placed a separation bracket above because IMO the ‘wave’ was a separate event that occurred about 5 minutes later ( ]-5 mins-[ ); Jansson must have mentioned the wave also to the NYT reporter but either due to the language barrier or media sensationalism, the latter clubbed the two events together.

Jansson himself appears to have seized on the momentary fame that the NYT report gave him and this is reflected in the rather different story that he told the Chicago American on 25th April 1912. There he claimed to have actually seen the shooting and although the article names the officer involved as “Murdock” (sic), the authors of OASOG feel that Jansson himself did not name the officer and that it was an added embellishment by the reporter. The following is the ET link to that report:

Titanic victim in Chicago tells of Self-death

As I said before, one can see how these stories about an Officer shooting a couple of people and then himself can be exaggerated, misconceived, distorted and even fabricated when several survivor witnesses and newspaper reports are involved. While there remains the possibility, and no more, that something did happen, IMO it is important to consider where individuals, including officers, might have been at the time. Being on the starboard side forward did not necessarily mean that an officer was involved with the frantic work on Collapsible A, but then we have a fairly good idea of the two officers who were so involved, did their duty to the end and died when they got washed overboard by the wave. I believe that by 1988-89 Walter Lord was thinking on the same lines.

 

[Tati]

Dear participants in this thread.
Let me express my private opinion on this regard.
Just recently I had some insights.
Sadly (or luckily?) his suicide scenario seems to be possible. But under the only circumstances.
Some evidences I read, in which way Murdoch had used to behave and make decisions in other sailings, indicate that he had the ability to react instantly anticipating all possible scenarios from the current moment.T

The decision to commit suicide might have been made less than a second before it was executed. As we know, some witnesses claimed to have seen him washed away by the wave.
So, feel (just feel) that he might have done it the moment he saw the wave and instantly calculated that he had no chance to survive.

At least, death by gunshot is easier than by drowning...

 

[Luca Gelmetti]

With the only first-hand accounts there are, it makes me have a firm stance that suicide really happened, or at least remains a possibility. I agree with the thoughts of those who previously commented extensively on this topic, and yet I believe that if that could have happened it was in a boat that had been lowered, and it makes me think that everything points to the collapsible boat "D" around 2:05 am.

The real mystery for me will always be who the supposed officer who committed it was. I don't believe for a second that it was Murdoch or Moody, who did everything until the end until the infamous wave swept them off deck.

 

[Tati]

With the only first-hand accounts there are, it makes me have a firm stance that suicide really happened, or at least remains a possibility. I agree with the thoughts of those who previously commented extensively on this topic, and yet I believe that if that could have happened it was in a boat that had been lowered, and it makes me think that everything points to the collapsible boat "D" around 2:05 am.

The real mystery for me will always be who the supposed officer who committed it was. I don't believe for a second that it was Murdoch or Moody, who did everything until the end until the infamous wave swept them off deck.

Lowe?

 

[Thomas Krom]

and yet I believe that if that could have happened it was in a boat that had been lowered, and it makes me think that everything points to the collapsible boat "D" around 2:05 am.

I believe one line in George Rheims his letter wasn't translated correctly, as his original letter was written in French and translated by his niece in the 1980s. I recently acquired the original text of the letter from an archive. I hope to fully translate it before the end of the year.