Kate Bortner
Member
Parks OM (yes, I actually used that expression as it seemed appropriate to express my affection!) I adore your intelligent wit!
-kate.
-kate.
Dreams
- Thread starter Brandon Whited
- Start date
Joanne Seiferlein
Guest
Dear Parks,
WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO TAKE YOUR BELLIGERENT ATTITUDE TOWARDS TERI AND GO SAIL ANOTHER COURSE ?!!!
WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO TAKE YOUR BELLIGERENT ATTITUDE TOWARDS TERI AND GO SAIL ANOTHER COURSE ?!!!
Parks Stephenson
Member
Joanne,
Because Teri's not only doing everyone who wants to learn about Titanic a great disservice, but she mocks anyone who who puts faith in recorded history. And I'm not belligerent, but rather reactive.
Parks
Because Teri's not only doing everyone who wants to learn about Titanic a great disservice, but she mocks anyone who who puts faith in recorded history. And I'm not belligerent, but rather reactive.
Parks
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Joanne,
Why don't you take your foolish attitude towards Teri - and your own belligerent one towards Parks - and sail permanently away?
You apparently have no vested interest or respect for this board except to continue Teri's fight for her. Maybe you gals should set sail together so you can do that new dance - what's it called now? - "The Cedric Side-Step."
Randy
Why don't you take your foolish attitude towards Teri - and your own belligerent one towards Parks - and sail permanently away?
You apparently have no vested interest or respect for this board except to continue Teri's fight for her. Maybe you gals should set sail together so you can do that new dance - what's it called now? - "The Cedric Side-Step."
Randy
Michael H. Standart
Member
I've been trying to stay out of this furfight, but there is a question here that goes begging. Mainly the one posed by Joanne.
To clearify, this is a board that is primarily concerned with history and when somebody asserts something to be a fact, it's hardly unreasonable for anyone to ask to see some hard evidence to substantiate the claim. In fact, it's expected, and I daresay, even required, or at least required if the claimant wishes their view to be accepted as such. If that burden of proof cannot be met, then one can scarcely blame the skeptics for remaining skeptical. Nor are they out of line in saying that something is false when it can be domonstrated that it is.
That is not to say that speculation and opionation is inappropriate here or in any other forum. Far from it. It's a good way to bring up interesting questions or at least bring about a response whereby something may be explored and even learned.
However, one is very wise to differentiate between what is observable and quantifyable fact as opposed to opinion and belief. (If nothing else, one can avoid a lot of grief that way.) Belief systems into the nature of the divine, diety, life, death, and afterlife fall into the latter catagory. They are simply impossible to prove or disprove by the evidence.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
To clearify, this is a board that is primarily concerned with history and when somebody asserts something to be a fact, it's hardly unreasonable for anyone to ask to see some hard evidence to substantiate the claim. In fact, it's expected, and I daresay, even required, or at least required if the claimant wishes their view to be accepted as such. If that burden of proof cannot be met, then one can scarcely blame the skeptics for remaining skeptical. Nor are they out of line in saying that something is false when it can be domonstrated that it is.
That is not to say that speculation and opionation is inappropriate here or in any other forum. Far from it. It's a good way to bring up interesting questions or at least bring about a response whereby something may be explored and even learned.
However, one is very wise to differentiate between what is observable and quantifyable fact as opposed to opinion and belief. (If nothing else, one can avoid a lot of grief that way.) Belief systems into the nature of the divine, diety, life, death, and afterlife fall into the latter catagory. They are simply impossible to prove or disprove by the evidence.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Kritina Johnston
Member
On to the original topic...
I've had very few dreams per se about the Titanic (at least, not that I can remember. I tend to have vivid dreams that disappear in little silk slippers come the time of awakening. I hate my consciousness sometimes...). What I have had are images, brief flashes where I am either there as myself, or more often, seeing the surroundings through another person's eyes. And there have been images that were related to a story I have wanted to work on...
I did have a dream where the stern was coming out of the water, and it changed from steel to wood, yet still retained its shape as the Titanic's stern...Now what is that supposed to represent? I'm sure it has nothing to do with sex! (That's where Ioan Gruffudd comes in...
)
I've had very few dreams per se about the Titanic (at least, not that I can remember. I tend to have vivid dreams that disappear in little silk slippers come the time of awakening. I hate my consciousness sometimes...). What I have had are images, brief flashes where I am either there as myself, or more often, seeing the surroundings through another person's eyes. And there have been images that were related to a story I have wanted to work on...
I did have a dream where the stern was coming out of the water, and it changed from steel to wood, yet still retained its shape as the Titanic's stern...Now what is that supposed to represent? I'm sure it has nothing to do with sex! (That's where Ioan Gruffudd comes in...
)Biljana Jerec
Guest
My internet access is irregular but I cannot let the unpleasantness of this thread pass unremarked.
The only aggression I've seen so far is coming from one side. So be it. By their words and actions let them be judged. Does anyone think of how many people read this board? Many people who could be judged harshly by this thread are apparently delightful in real life.
However, I must also comment on some of the invective. I trust that 'furfight' does not have the connotations there that it does here and will choose to see it as yet another example of cultural difference. In this, I must place my trust. Other comments stand as gender biased and unnecessary in context irrespective of cultural filtration.
To be on topic, my only Titanic dreams have elements more akin to those experiences in Passages by Connie Willis. For those who are unfamiliar with this work, the intrusion of historical anachronism makes it clear that it is a version of an imagined Titanic that is in my dreams rather than the historical one.
To all, I wish the best for the season whether it be Christmas, Hannukah, Eid-al-fitr, et al. May your God be with you.
Sincerely,
Biljana
The only aggression I've seen so far is coming from one side. So be it. By their words and actions let them be judged. Does anyone think of how many people read this board? Many people who could be judged harshly by this thread are apparently delightful in real life.
However, I must also comment on some of the invective. I trust that 'furfight' does not have the connotations there that it does here and will choose to see it as yet another example of cultural difference. In this, I must place my trust. Other comments stand as gender biased and unnecessary in context irrespective of cultural filtration.
To be on topic, my only Titanic dreams have elements more akin to those experiences in Passages by Connie Willis. For those who are unfamiliar with this work, the intrusion of historical anachronism makes it clear that it is a version of an imagined Titanic that is in my dreams rather than the historical one.
To all, I wish the best for the season whether it be Christmas, Hannukah, Eid-al-fitr, et al. May your God be with you.
Sincerely,
Biljana
Geoff Whitfield
Member
I did once have a dream that I was on the Titanic - only to find on awakening that my rubber hot water bottle had burst!
Geoff
Geoff
You don't need anything fancy to read the newsgroups, just browse over to Google Groups which has the entire USENET (newsgroups) archive from 1981 to date.
Copy this link into your browser:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.history.ocean-liners.titanic
Copy this link into your browser:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.history.ocean-liners.titanic
Colleen Collier
Member
WAY TO GO ALMA!!!!
I'll buy her another one if she needs, but please tell her that they work so much better frozen beforehand!!! Colleen
Inger Sheil
Member
Parks, as ever I'm quite awed by your patience and forbearance when dealing with Teri's past life memories. While I realise that offering her the opportunity to demonstrate a factual basis for her 'memories' does, in the eyes of some people, give them a validity that they do not merit, IMHO it shows your fairmindedness on this subject. I understand that not only have you shown remarkable tolerance on this board but that in private exchanges you've given Teri ample opportunity to provide something - anything! - to support her extraordinarly claims. While the resulting exchanges and infliction of vague and error-strewn 'memories' on the board must have been frustrating for you (and has certainly been so for us to watch), your patience has been fruitful. We've now had ample opportunity to see these so-called 'memories' brought into the light of scrutiny, and can see how flimsy and unsubstantial these claims are. It's a pity that as you cooly, calmy, methodically and with good grace and humour dismantled this fantasy the responses from Teri's supporters have become more vicious. Rather than attacking you because you have so effectively exposed these lurid fantasies for what they are, their time would have been better spent constructing a more plausible case for their extraordinary claims. As you quite rightly noted, not only has Teri claimed to be Ismay, she has also claimed psychic powers that enabled her to 'see' events to which Ismay wasn't even a witness. This is going far beyond merely a controversial belief-based system of historical interpretation - we're entering the realm of purely fatuous fantasy.
Btw, not so long members of this board might recall that (in yet another attempt to corrupt the historical record with the introduction of unsupported, highly dubious 'memories') we had 'Lightoller's' memories shared with us - very specific allegations about a very specific incident, in a sequence that continued beyond the Titanic herself and on to the Carpathia. I offered to put a series of questions to 'Lightoller' in an attempt to assess his/her/its credibility. Out of respect for this generation's 'Lightoller's' apparently rather delicate, shrinking sensibilities, these were posed privately via Teri. For those wondering what the outcome was, there was no response. 'Lightoller', while able to provide specific information on the Titanic, is apparently unable to give us his wife's *full* name or the names or even approximate dates of his ships on the West African coast, or a number of similar simple, non-deceptive questions.
Privately I have explained to Teri how she can go about researching some of her purported memories (and, as mentioned above, had she not taken a certain course towards me in another board I would even have assisted her in doing so). There are, however, limits to everyone's tolerance. These 'memories' are like a rot, corrupting the historical record and this board with an endless cycle of passive/aggressiveness, followed by attempts to claim victimhood status. Teri's views are no more exempt from the rigorous scrutiny of researchers on this board than are anyone else's - and if she puts them forward and the support for them is found to be flimsy (as with the new, racy, decadent J B I we've been introduced to of late), she can expect to find stiff resistance.
As for the original topic, dreams about the Titanic - I have had a single extraordiarily vivid dream in which I saw Wilde working with his sextant and James Moody standing at his side noting down coordinates. Perhaps rather oddly, this took place on the bow. Evidently, I was a particularly observant capstan in a past life.
~ Inger
Btw, not so long members of this board might recall that (in yet another attempt to corrupt the historical record with the introduction of unsupported, highly dubious 'memories') we had 'Lightoller's' memories shared with us - very specific allegations about a very specific incident, in a sequence that continued beyond the Titanic herself and on to the Carpathia. I offered to put a series of questions to 'Lightoller' in an attempt to assess his/her/its credibility. Out of respect for this generation's 'Lightoller's' apparently rather delicate, shrinking sensibilities, these were posed privately via Teri. For those wondering what the outcome was, there was no response. 'Lightoller', while able to provide specific information on the Titanic, is apparently unable to give us his wife's *full* name or the names or even approximate dates of his ships on the West African coast, or a number of similar simple, non-deceptive questions.
Privately I have explained to Teri how she can go about researching some of her purported memories (and, as mentioned above, had she not taken a certain course towards me in another board I would even have assisted her in doing so). There are, however, limits to everyone's tolerance. These 'memories' are like a rot, corrupting the historical record and this board with an endless cycle of passive/aggressiveness, followed by attempts to claim victimhood status. Teri's views are no more exempt from the rigorous scrutiny of researchers on this board than are anyone else's - and if she puts them forward and the support for them is found to be flimsy (as with the new, racy, decadent J B I we've been introduced to of late), she can expect to find stiff resistance.
As for the original topic, dreams about the Titanic - I have had a single extraordiarily vivid dream in which I saw Wilde working with his sextant and James Moody standing at his side noting down coordinates. Perhaps rather oddly, this took place on the bow. Evidently, I was a particularly observant capstan in a past life.
~ Inger
Michael H. Standart
Member
G'Day Beljana; the only judgements being made here are on the substance of the material and opinions offered. Some will agree with a given point of view and some will not, and the one's who express opinions, especially views of an extremely controversial nature, will be expected and required to defend it.
You said, "However, I must also comment on some of the invective. I trust that 'furfight' does not have the connotations there that it does here and will choose to see it as yet another example of cultural difference."
"Furfight" is a figure of speech for such as Fued, Heated Arguement, or Flamewar, (The latter of which this particualar thread could have degenerated into. Debating belief systems can become unbelievably ugly.)
"Other comments stand as gender biased and unnecessary in context irrespective of cultural filtration."
Wrongo Cosmo! The points and counter points made were a debate in action. One individual had a point of view that others differed with. "Gender bias" had nothing to do with it and to assert such is little more then irrelevant arguement by way of a highly emotional buzzword.
The issue here became one of whether or not a given person is the re-incarnation of J. Bruce Ismay. Whether Teri is such, I don't know, nor do I consider it knowable. The problem here is that in defending her claim, she did so with information that is easily falsified. If she is what she claims to be (My owm skepticism has been a matter of record here for months now.) then I would have to observe that her "past" memories are so badly jumbled and distorted by the contemporary that it will likely be impossible to sort them out.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
You said, "However, I must also comment on some of the invective. I trust that 'furfight' does not have the connotations there that it does here and will choose to see it as yet another example of cultural difference."
"Furfight" is a figure of speech for such as Fued, Heated Arguement, or Flamewar, (The latter of which this particualar thread could have degenerated into. Debating belief systems can become unbelievably ugly.)
"Other comments stand as gender biased and unnecessary in context irrespective of cultural filtration."
Wrongo Cosmo! The points and counter points made were a debate in action. One individual had a point of view that others differed with. "Gender bias" had nothing to do with it and to assert such is little more then irrelevant arguement by way of a highly emotional buzzword.
The issue here became one of whether or not a given person is the re-incarnation of J. Bruce Ismay. Whether Teri is such, I don't know, nor do I consider it knowable. The problem here is that in defending her claim, she did so with information that is easily falsified. If she is what she claims to be (My owm skepticism has been a matter of record here for months now.) then I would have to observe that her "past" memories are so badly jumbled and distorted by the contemporary that it will likely be impossible to sort them out.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
