Ioannis Georgiou
Member
The only one who mentioned a crash stop from full ahead to full astern was 4th Officer Boxhall. Everyone else only mentioned a normal stop order (like Dillon, Scott, Hichens). Also we have the evidence from the Boiler Rooms who received a stop order from the main engine room which they should have not get if the engines were planned to go full astern. The engines did run astern but only slow shortly after the collision.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>I believe they may have attempted to perform a crash stop as Frederick Scott saw the engine room telegraphs ring. He was asked:
Q - Was the telegraph signal that came the emergency or the ordinary telegraph?
A - That is to the main engine room. It is different. They ring the two on the main engine room, and then they ring two others just afterwards, the emergency ones.
Q - Did you hear the two?
A - All four went.
Q - Did you hear the two ordinary ones ring first?
A - No, they all four rang together.
Q - What did they ring?
A - “Stop.”<<
That's not evidence of a crash stop. That's just "We're not going feed any steam to the engines" and what ends up happening is that the ship coasts to a stop unless power has been applied.
I've been on ships that have been "Crash stopped" and there's never any mistaking the rattling, shuddering vibration for what it is when it happens, NONE of which was noted or observed on the Titanic,
Q - Was the telegraph signal that came the emergency or the ordinary telegraph?
A - That is to the main engine room. It is different. They ring the two on the main engine room, and then they ring two others just afterwards, the emergency ones.
Q - Did you hear the two?
A - All four went.
Q - Did you hear the two ordinary ones ring first?
A - No, they all four rang together.
Q - What did they ring?
A - “Stop.”<<
That's not evidence of a crash stop. That's just "We're not going feed any steam to the engines" and what ends up happening is that the ship coasts to a stop unless power has been applied.
I've been on ships that have been "Crash stopped" and there's never any mistaking the rattling, shuddering vibration for what it is when it happens, NONE of which was noted or observed on the Titanic,
Michael H. Standart
Member
>> If an officer needs to turn a twin-screw vessel rapidly, he can slow or revers the propeller on the side toward which he wants the bow to swing. If the turn is to starboard, the starboard shaft is slowed or reversed. <<
My skipper on the USS Comstock was pretty adept at doing that. He could literally turn the ship around on a dime that way.
My skipper on the USS Comstock was pretty adept at doing that. He could literally turn the ship around on a dime that way.
Aaron_2016
Guest
Joseph Scarrott said - "It seemed as if the ship shook in the same manner as if the engines had been suddenly reversed to full speed astern, just the same sort of vibration, enough to wake anybody up if they were asleep."
Other survivors described a tremble feeling throughout the ship. I have heard that torpedo impacts against battleships are felt throughout the entire ship as the shockwave travels across the superstructure and cause the vessel to jump, but on merchant / passenger ships the impact is more localised and the area of impact absorbs the shockwave owing to their different design structure. I guess it depends on the size and design of each vessel. My cousin served on merchant ships back in the 1960's and he said when his ship lost a propeller blade it caused the whole ship to tremble and the stern to bounce, but when the Olympic lost her blade 3 times the passengers barely noticed it, and only a few were woken up by the sensation. I believe the Titanic's size and design make her unique in the sense that we don't really know how she would have reacted.
.
B-rad
Member
From the evidence we can gather such about any telegraph orders:
Boxhall: FULL SPEED ASTERN before collision
Dillon: Heard telegraph before 2sec before 'shock' cannot say what.
Hichens: Heard telegraph before collision cannot say what (in wheel house)
Hichens: Telegraph order immediately after collision
Dillon: STOP 1 ½ min. after shock
Scott: STOP after collision does not state time
Dillon: SLOW ASTERN ½ min. after STOP
Scott: SLOW AHEAD 10-15 min. after STOP
Dillon: STOP 2 min. after SLOW ASTERN
Scott: STOP 10 min after SLOW AHEAD
Dillon: SLOW AHEAD no time given
Scott: SLOW ASTERN 4-5 min after stop
Dillon: STOP 2min after SLOW AHEAD
Scott: STOP 5min after SLOW ASTERN
As far as WTD we have Barrette who claims to have made it from boiler room 6 to boiler room 5 “before” the doors broke. We then have Beauchamp who claims they went within 5 min of the collision and then Dillon who said they went 3 min after shock. Overall there seems to have been a delay according to witnesses below decks, while those on deck like Boxhall, Olliver and Hichens (who only knows based on Murdoch speaking to Smith as he himself could not see Murdoch at WTD control) make the WTD activating immediately after collision.
Boxhall: FULL SPEED ASTERN before collision
Dillon: Heard telegraph before 2sec before 'shock' cannot say what.
Hichens: Heard telegraph before collision cannot say what (in wheel house)
Hichens: Telegraph order immediately after collision
Dillon: STOP 1 ½ min. after shock
Scott: STOP after collision does not state time
Dillon: SLOW ASTERN ½ min. after STOP
Scott: SLOW AHEAD 10-15 min. after STOP
Dillon: STOP 2 min. after SLOW ASTERN
Scott: STOP 10 min after SLOW AHEAD
Dillon: SLOW AHEAD no time given
Scott: SLOW ASTERN 4-5 min after stop
Dillon: STOP 2min after SLOW AHEAD
Scott: STOP 5min after SLOW ASTERN
As far as WTD we have Barrette who claims to have made it from boiler room 6 to boiler room 5 “before” the doors broke. We then have Beauchamp who claims they went within 5 min of the collision and then Dillon who said they went 3 min after shock. Overall there seems to have been a delay according to witnesses below decks, while those on deck like Boxhall, Olliver and Hichens (who only knows based on Murdoch speaking to Smith as he himself could not see Murdoch at WTD control) make the WTD activating immediately after collision.
Stephen Carey
Member
Reply to rancor
I think I can help you here, being reasonably conversant with the machinery of the ship (I have written a document on how to start it from cold if anyone's interested - this outlines all the machinery operations that need to be carried out in order to put to sea from dead ship).
As the ship was "Full Away on Passage" (FAOP), all systems would have been geared to running the main machinery. As you state, the main generators would have been exhausting to the contact feed heater situated high in the engineroom in order to give the required NPSH for the boiler feed pumps. The main reciprocating engines would have been exhausting via the LP turbine to the condensers, which in turn were fed with seawater by the main seawater pumps, and the condensate extracted by the dry/wet air pumps (known these days as air ejector and condensate pumps respectively).
The ringing of the telegraph from the bridge to "STOP" would have caused some consternation down below (it still does today), and the watch engineers would have immediately swung the throttles to STOP on both engines, at the same time operating the Browns engines to switch the exhaust valves over from the turbine to the condensers. On receipt of the STOP from the bridge, another action would have been to also signal STOP on the boiler room telegraphs. These, and the stoking indicators, were operated by the watchkeeping engineers in order to keep the requisite steam generation required for full sea revolutions.
This would have transmitted the same consternation to the boiler room engineers and staff, and this is shown in the movies where the Leading Stoker shouts out to close dampers in order to reduce steam production. All the double ended boilers were used for driving the main engines, whereas the single ended ones could handle the main and auxiliary generators in port (called "hotel services"). To go to STOP from FULL AHEAD with firetube boilers would indubitably cause the lifting of the safety valves on all the boilers in order to vent the steam elsewhere than to the main engines. I think this was accurately described in the Cameron movie, as I have been in that situation myself on more than one occasion.
The Chief Engineer would have reported to the Captain once things had settled down below, and would be fully expecting to carry on with the voyage. The main generators would still be exhausting to the contact feed heater (not the surface feed heater), so without the feed to the boilers (this was manual, not via automatic feed regulators), live steam would have to be added to the heater in order not to cool the feed water too much, which would affect the boilers if FULL AHEAD had been signalled within a short time.
We don't know what passed between the Captain and the Chief, but having been a Chief Engineer myself, and hearing that the ship was going to sink, I would have been straight down below again to issue instructions. Knowing that the main engines would never run again, the first thing to do is to switch the main generators on to the auxiliary condenser. This was supplied with steam driven seawater and air pumps, which would have been quite quick to set up in the normal way. My theory - in view of where this equipment is situated on the ship (starboard side of the reciprocating engine room) was that it was the discharge from this pump overboard that suddenly started up and nearly flooded one of the starboard aft lifeboats. This can be seen in the Titanic Sinking in Real Time video. The main seawater pumps and dry/wet air pumps could then be shut down as they consumed a fair bit of steam. The engineers would also know that they had to keep steam up in as many boilers as possible, but I would think that the steam still in the drums of the boilers from BR 4 back to BR 2 would have been more than sufficient.
Drawing - Bruce Beveridge from Titanica site
The Olympic Class didn't have an Emergency Generator as such, as the Auxiliary Generators (sometimes referred to as Emergency Generators) were still steam driven, and not diesel like in subsequent ships. These two small 30kW engines were run regularly to keep them drained and ready to start, and were used for testing various electrical kit around the ship such as the radio system, lighting etc. The Chief would have instructed the engineers to start these two sets up (depending on what the lighting load was - possibly only one was required) and to shut down the main generators as they would not be needed for the rest of the life of the ship, in order to save steam. The engineroom is now running on the Auxiliary Generators, the only steam consumers being the Auxiliary condenser seawater and air pumps. Little if any boiler feed water would need to be transferred to the boilers with such a large reserve of steam. With no fires lit, water level was not important, and would only have served to reduce the steam pressure.
The boilers: As the water gradually passed to and flooded each boiler room, a few engineers would have been posted above the boilers to swing boiler stops (valves to close off a boiler) and the isolation valves on the steam lines provided for redundancy in just this eventuality. Here - copyright Sam Halpern - is the arrangement of the steam lines from the boilers -
From this excellent drawing (I must ask Sam where the original came from...) you can see how the redundancy was built into the system. It's actually a lot of redundancy, so someone really though this one out. If we assume that the engineers have isolated boiler rooms 6 and 5 at this time (water in both, via the damage to the side plating, fires drawn), then our auxiliary generators can be fed from BR 3 via the direct purple line shown between bulkheads G&H, with BR 4 supplying the steam lines until isolated due to further flooding of the boiler room, leaving only BRs 3&2. The green main generator lines would all be isolated at this point. There is now very little for the engineers to remain below for, and one of the firemen reported that they and most of the engineers were sent up top. One said that "All the engineers were up top, I saw Mr Farquharson (2/E) up there" or words to that effect. If I was the Chief, I would have kept two or three of the engineers there besides myself, a few firemen to draw the fires (no need to shovel coal as there was such a huge reserve of steam), and possibly an electrician at the switchboard to carry out isolations when fittings shorted out due to rising water. All they had to do was wait, make sure the auxiliary pumps carried on working, and keep an eye on the steam isolation valves as the water gradually filled the ship.
Once BR 3 started to flood, the stops would have been shut, and the isolation line valve (purple) to the auxiliaries also closed, leaving the one open from boiler room 2. I would have thought about the steam demand and maybe shared the boilers in BR 2 between the main steam lines to the auxiliary condenser pumps (maybe one or two boilers on the starboard side), with the remaining three boilers on the purple line between WTB J&H to the generators. Possibly and to save on manpower, it would have been even better (if such a word can be used in this situation) to shut down that line as well, and feed the auxiliary generators from the purple line coming from the main lines in the reciprocating engineroom. By this time there was nothing more the engineers left below could do but sit there and wait. Once the aft end started to rise out of the water, it would have been nigh on impossible to evacuate anyway, though I would think they would have tried.
The lights are still on via the emergency switchboard, reliant on either the sea suctions for the auxiliary pumps coming out of the water (they were still submerged right to the end, even though the main suctions were well out of the water by this time (good design, though maybe with hindsight)) or loss of steam by either decaying pressure, or - as I believe actually happened - the steam lines fracturing as the ship broke in two. The survivors who stated the lamps glowed for a few seconds could have been the generators winding down. The "explosions" heard could have been the steam lines rupturing (the red ones in the drawing), as a "sudden release of pressure" is pretty much the definition of an explosion.
Some have mentioned boilers exploding when in contact with seawater, for both Lusitania and Titanic, but to me, seawater suddenly flooding of a boiler room cools a boiler such that a vacuum forms inside. This would cause an implosion rather than an explosion if the boiler shell couldn't take the vacuum, and there are videos on YT of 45 gallon drums filled with steam and sprayed with water doing just that.
PS: I have written starting documents for the following ships, if anyone wants a pdf copy -
Olympic class (with notes on the Titanic sinking)
Mauretania
Aquitania
Empress of Britain
Normandie
Queen Mary (not yet started - the book is buried in our move from Malaysia...)
I think I can help you here, being reasonably conversant with the machinery of the ship (I have written a document on how to start it from cold if anyone's interested - this outlines all the machinery operations that need to be carried out in order to put to sea from dead ship).
As the ship was "Full Away on Passage" (FAOP), all systems would have been geared to running the main machinery. As you state, the main generators would have been exhausting to the contact feed heater situated high in the engineroom in order to give the required NPSH for the boiler feed pumps. The main reciprocating engines would have been exhausting via the LP turbine to the condensers, which in turn were fed with seawater by the main seawater pumps, and the condensate extracted by the dry/wet air pumps (known these days as air ejector and condensate pumps respectively).
The ringing of the telegraph from the bridge to "STOP" would have caused some consternation down below (it still does today), and the watch engineers would have immediately swung the throttles to STOP on both engines, at the same time operating the Browns engines to switch the exhaust valves over from the turbine to the condensers. On receipt of the STOP from the bridge, another action would have been to also signal STOP on the boiler room telegraphs. These, and the stoking indicators, were operated by the watchkeeping engineers in order to keep the requisite steam generation required for full sea revolutions.
This would have transmitted the same consternation to the boiler room engineers and staff, and this is shown in the movies where the Leading Stoker shouts out to close dampers in order to reduce steam production. All the double ended boilers were used for driving the main engines, whereas the single ended ones could handle the main and auxiliary generators in port (called "hotel services"). To go to STOP from FULL AHEAD with firetube boilers would indubitably cause the lifting of the safety valves on all the boilers in order to vent the steam elsewhere than to the main engines. I think this was accurately described in the Cameron movie, as I have been in that situation myself on more than one occasion.
The Chief Engineer would have reported to the Captain once things had settled down below, and would be fully expecting to carry on with the voyage. The main generators would still be exhausting to the contact feed heater (not the surface feed heater), so without the feed to the boilers (this was manual, not via automatic feed regulators), live steam would have to be added to the heater in order not to cool the feed water too much, which would affect the boilers if FULL AHEAD had been signalled within a short time.
We don't know what passed between the Captain and the Chief, but having been a Chief Engineer myself, and hearing that the ship was going to sink, I would have been straight down below again to issue instructions. Knowing that the main engines would never run again, the first thing to do is to switch the main generators on to the auxiliary condenser. This was supplied with steam driven seawater and air pumps, which would have been quite quick to set up in the normal way. My theory - in view of where this equipment is situated on the ship (starboard side of the reciprocating engine room) was that it was the discharge from this pump overboard that suddenly started up and nearly flooded one of the starboard aft lifeboats. This can be seen in the Titanic Sinking in Real Time video. The main seawater pumps and dry/wet air pumps could then be shut down as they consumed a fair bit of steam. The engineers would also know that they had to keep steam up in as many boilers as possible, but I would think that the steam still in the drums of the boilers from BR 4 back to BR 2 would have been more than sufficient.
Drawing - Bruce Beveridge from Titanica site
The Olympic Class didn't have an Emergency Generator as such, as the Auxiliary Generators (sometimes referred to as Emergency Generators) were still steam driven, and not diesel like in subsequent ships. These two small 30kW engines were run regularly to keep them drained and ready to start, and were used for testing various electrical kit around the ship such as the radio system, lighting etc. The Chief would have instructed the engineers to start these two sets up (depending on what the lighting load was - possibly only one was required) and to shut down the main generators as they would not be needed for the rest of the life of the ship, in order to save steam. The engineroom is now running on the Auxiliary Generators, the only steam consumers being the Auxiliary condenser seawater and air pumps. Little if any boiler feed water would need to be transferred to the boilers with such a large reserve of steam. With no fires lit, water level was not important, and would only have served to reduce the steam pressure.
The boilers: As the water gradually passed to and flooded each boiler room, a few engineers would have been posted above the boilers to swing boiler stops (valves to close off a boiler) and the isolation valves on the steam lines provided for redundancy in just this eventuality. Here - copyright Sam Halpern - is the arrangement of the steam lines from the boilers -
From this excellent drawing (I must ask Sam where the original came from...) you can see how the redundancy was built into the system. It's actually a lot of redundancy, so someone really though this one out. If we assume that the engineers have isolated boiler rooms 6 and 5 at this time (water in both, via the damage to the side plating, fires drawn), then our auxiliary generators can be fed from BR 3 via the direct purple line shown between bulkheads G&H, with BR 4 supplying the steam lines until isolated due to further flooding of the boiler room, leaving only BRs 3&2. The green main generator lines would all be isolated at this point. There is now very little for the engineers to remain below for, and one of the firemen reported that they and most of the engineers were sent up top. One said that "All the engineers were up top, I saw Mr Farquharson (2/E) up there" or words to that effect. If I was the Chief, I would have kept two or three of the engineers there besides myself, a few firemen to draw the fires (no need to shovel coal as there was such a huge reserve of steam), and possibly an electrician at the switchboard to carry out isolations when fittings shorted out due to rising water. All they had to do was wait, make sure the auxiliary pumps carried on working, and keep an eye on the steam isolation valves as the water gradually filled the ship.
Once BR 3 started to flood, the stops would have been shut, and the isolation line valve (purple) to the auxiliaries also closed, leaving the one open from boiler room 2. I would have thought about the steam demand and maybe shared the boilers in BR 2 between the main steam lines to the auxiliary condenser pumps (maybe one or two boilers on the starboard side), with the remaining three boilers on the purple line between WTB J&H to the generators. Possibly and to save on manpower, it would have been even better (if such a word can be used in this situation) to shut down that line as well, and feed the auxiliary generators from the purple line coming from the main lines in the reciprocating engineroom. By this time there was nothing more the engineers left below could do but sit there and wait. Once the aft end started to rise out of the water, it would have been nigh on impossible to evacuate anyway, though I would think they would have tried.
The lights are still on via the emergency switchboard, reliant on either the sea suctions for the auxiliary pumps coming out of the water (they were still submerged right to the end, even though the main suctions were well out of the water by this time (good design, though maybe with hindsight)) or loss of steam by either decaying pressure, or - as I believe actually happened - the steam lines fracturing as the ship broke in two. The survivors who stated the lamps glowed for a few seconds could have been the generators winding down. The "explosions" heard could have been the steam lines rupturing (the red ones in the drawing), as a "sudden release of pressure" is pretty much the definition of an explosion.
Some have mentioned boilers exploding when in contact with seawater, for both Lusitania and Titanic, but to me, seawater suddenly flooding of a boiler room cools a boiler such that a vacuum forms inside. This would cause an implosion rather than an explosion if the boiler shell couldn't take the vacuum, and there are videos on YT of 45 gallon drums filled with steam and sprayed with water doing just that.
PS: I have written starting documents for the following ships, if anyone wants a pdf copy -
Olympic class (with notes on the Titanic sinking)
Mauretania
Aquitania
Empress of Britain
Normandie
Queen Mary (not yet started - the book is buried in our move from Malaysia...)
Rancor
Member
Hey Codad1946,
Many thanks for your extremely detailed reply, this is exactly what I was looking for.
I have read your article on the cold start up procedure of the Titanic and the other ships, all excellent articles, thanks for sharing your expertise!
Regarding the dynamo condensers, looking at this drawing also from Sam Halpern, if this is correct it shows the dynamos exhausting into the surface heater, where the steam was condensed using the feed water returning from the main condensers. With main engines stopped and the feed water supply presumably also stopping, I assume it was just the reserve water in the hotwell tanks that would keep the surface heater operating until they switched to the auxiliary condenser?
I'm interested that you suggest shutting down the main gensets and running on auxiliaries only... was 60kW enough to run the entire lighting load of the ship? Also from my reading it seems that the auxiliary dynamos were 'hardwired' to dedicated emergency lights throughout the ship. There didn't seem to be an arrangement for linking them up with the main switchboard. If the main dynamos really were shut down and all that was left to light the ship were the emergency lights I'd be a bit surprised why some of the survivors didn't mention this. Feel free to correct me here though!
The description of the steam supply system and progressive isolation as boiler rooms flooded is very interesting. It seems they managed exceptionally well especially under stressful conditions in maintaining the steam supply until the breakup.
Out of interest, if you had to keep at least one of the main dynamos running, would this change the steam feed setup much?
Very keen on your cold start up procedures, I think I have read most of them but was hoping to re-read some the other day and couldn't locate the website. If you could post a link I'd be very grateful.
Thanks all posters for your replies thus far.
Rancor.
Many thanks for your extremely detailed reply, this is exactly what I was looking for.
I have read your article on the cold start up procedure of the Titanic and the other ships, all excellent articles, thanks for sharing your expertise!
Regarding the dynamo condensers, looking at this drawing also from Sam Halpern, if this is correct it shows the dynamos exhausting into the surface heater, where the steam was condensed using the feed water returning from the main condensers. With main engines stopped and the feed water supply presumably also stopping, I assume it was just the reserve water in the hotwell tanks that would keep the surface heater operating until they switched to the auxiliary condenser?
I'm interested that you suggest shutting down the main gensets and running on auxiliaries only... was 60kW enough to run the entire lighting load of the ship? Also from my reading it seems that the auxiliary dynamos were 'hardwired' to dedicated emergency lights throughout the ship. There didn't seem to be an arrangement for linking them up with the main switchboard. If the main dynamos really were shut down and all that was left to light the ship were the emergency lights I'd be a bit surprised why some of the survivors didn't mention this. Feel free to correct me here though!
The description of the steam supply system and progressive isolation as boiler rooms flooded is very interesting. It seems they managed exceptionally well especially under stressful conditions in maintaining the steam supply until the breakup.
Out of interest, if you had to keep at least one of the main dynamos running, would this change the steam feed setup much?
Very keen on your cold start up procedures, I think I have read most of them but was hoping to re-read some the other day and couldn't locate the website. If you could post a link I'd be very grateful.
Thanks all posters for your replies thus far.
Rancor.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Joseph Scarrott said - "It seemed as if the ship shook in the same manner as if the engines had been suddenly reversed to full speed astern, just the same sort of vibration, enough to wake anybody up if they were asleep."<<
The problem with that is it didn't wake people up. The vast majority of the crew and passengers slept right through this. The simple fact of the matter is that they didn't have time to reverse the engines during the course of the accident itself. Nobody was in place or ready to everything which had to be done for sudden engine order changes.
The problem with that is it didn't wake people up. The vast majority of the crew and passengers slept right through this. The simple fact of the matter is that they didn't have time to reverse the engines during the course of the accident itself. Nobody was in place or ready to everything which had to be done for sudden engine order changes.
B-rad
Member
Can I take you up on the Olympic class one? I'm going to be staying on the Queen Mary in April next year, so if you finish such before that would be an excellent treasure to take along.
richard de kerbrech
Member
Sadly the senior Engineers at the manoeuvring platforms, adjacent to the main engine room telegraphs did not survive, so there is no testimony as to there actions and probably no record made in the movements books as the ship was not expecting to have a collision.
One can only speculate on the action that may possibly have been taken.
With the sudden telegraph order to 'Stop' on both engines (maybe a double ring indicating urgency) the Senior engineer moves the repeater handle over to reply.
The Regulator/Throttle on both engines then moved to shut off steam to the main engine cylinders and at the same time the lever to the change-over valves would be activated such that the steam from the main engine exhausts directly to the condenser, by-passing the LP Exhaust turbine.
The Boiler Room telegraphs, those like traffic light type indicators are flagged up to slow/stop stoking from the main platforms.
Should there be a Telegraph order for Half or Full Astern then the following will have to be executed.
The main engines will have to come to a stop before the manoeuvring platform Ahead/Astern lever will be moved from Ahead to astern-this operates the Stephenson's Reverse-link mechanism, then the Regular opened, which admits steam to the other side of the pistons.
When the engines were suddenly stopped a great deal of steam would have been 'dumped' into the condenser and the pressure in all boilers would rise thus causing the safety valves to lift and exhaust up through the steam pipes to the funnels.
These actions are pure speculative, but hopefully indicative of what might have happened so unexpectedly on that night.
The steam reciprocating engines used in the film Titanic were of the Liberty ship Jeremiah O' Brian, CGI ed, Mirrored and enlarged.
One can only speculate on the action that may possibly have been taken.
With the sudden telegraph order to 'Stop' on both engines (maybe a double ring indicating urgency) the Senior engineer moves the repeater handle over to reply.
The Regulator/Throttle on both engines then moved to shut off steam to the main engine cylinders and at the same time the lever to the change-over valves would be activated such that the steam from the main engine exhausts directly to the condenser, by-passing the LP Exhaust turbine.
The Boiler Room telegraphs, those like traffic light type indicators are flagged up to slow/stop stoking from the main platforms.
Should there be a Telegraph order for Half or Full Astern then the following will have to be executed.
The main engines will have to come to a stop before the manoeuvring platform Ahead/Astern lever will be moved from Ahead to astern-this operates the Stephenson's Reverse-link mechanism, then the Regular opened, which admits steam to the other side of the pistons.
When the engines were suddenly stopped a great deal of steam would have been 'dumped' into the condenser and the pressure in all boilers would rise thus causing the safety valves to lift and exhaust up through the steam pipes to the funnels.
These actions are pure speculative, but hopefully indicative of what might have happened so unexpectedly on that night.
The steam reciprocating engines used in the film Titanic were of the Liberty ship Jeremiah O' Brian, CGI ed, Mirrored and enlarged.
Last edited:
richard de kerbrech
Member
G'day Codad 1946,
I like your use of the word 'redundancy' which is more common to USN parlance. Over here in the UK it is a euphemism for the sack.. In the film 'Crimson Tide' Denzil Washington speaks of the redundancy of the different systems in the US nuclear submarine. You ask where Sam (Samuel Halpern) gets his illustrations from; he actually draws the schematics up himself and they are very comprehensive and informative
I would like your start up procedure for the Olympic and if possible the Mauretania, they will add further knowledge to the engine room workings, but there is no panic. Thank you in anticipation. RdeK.
I like your use of the word 'redundancy' which is more common to USN parlance. Over here in the UK it is a euphemism for the sack.. In the film 'Crimson Tide' Denzil Washington speaks of the redundancy of the different systems in the US nuclear submarine. You ask where Sam (Samuel Halpern) gets his illustrations from; he actually draws the schematics up himself and they are very comprehensive and informative
I would like your start up procedure for the Olympic and if possible the Mauretania, they will add further knowledge to the engine room workings, but there is no panic. Thank you in anticipation. RdeK.
Stephen Carey
Member
Hmm - that was a mistake where I said the contact feed heater (probably mixed it up with one of the other ships...), it was the surface feed heater as you (and Sam) state.
It may be that the auxiliary generators only lit the emergency lighting, but we only have the movies with the ship all lit up to go on? Perhaps they did keep at least one main generator going on the auxiliary condenser; whilst they were 400kW each, there were little or no electrically operated machines on the ship, so most of the load would have been galley and lighting, with the latter the only load by the time she was sinking. As to whether 60kW would run many lights, if each bulb was 60W, then that's 1000 bulbs throughout the ship. Seems quite a lot, though if they were only on the emergency circuits, I doubt many of the cabin lights would have showed through the ports, as emergency lighting only lights switchboards, the top and bottom of accessways, and corridor lights at certain intervals (plus the ship's navigation lights and radio). A shame there's no electrical drawing as for Empress of Britain and Normandie!
Thinking about modern ships, there's about 2MW of "hotel load" on a cruise ship, maybe more, but of course Titanic's systems were pretty rudimentary and of course DC, so a lot more current hungry than modern AC ships.
I've just checked with good old google, and he(she?) promises me that there were around 10,000 light bulbs on the ship, so it seems that the auxiliary generator would not have powered that lot - all assuming that the ship was as lit as the movies show! Who knows, but I think in future I will stick to one main generator going instead of the - almost useless - auxiliaries...
As to the feed system, I would think that as the fires were put out as the water encroached into each boiler room, they would have relied on the reserve of steam in the boiler drums. Even with only boiler room 2 still functional, that was 5 double ended units with a head of steam. I'd have to try and remember how much steam is required for 400kW to work out if it would be enough, but that's a bit too much detail I think. To avoid killing the steam in the boilers, it's not a good idea to pump cold water into them. On startup, the contact heater often didn't have enough exhaust steam to heat the feed water, so live steam was added to avoid cold-shocking the boilers. If the remaining boilers weren't fired (and I can't remember anyone like Barret saying that they were (anyone here know?)), then the feed system could be shut down with only the auxiliary condenser providing the vacuum to operate a main generator without any feed heaters on line. With the main condensers shut down, there would be no condensate from them either, so the system would be the same as during the cold start operations. As for changing over, the main system would be online until changed to the auxiliary system. With no water fed to the boilers, the condensate from the main condensers could be pumped via the surface heater Mono pump to the contact heater and thence to drain. Without a set of ship's drawings (more's the pity), that seems reasonable...
PS I have posted the latest Titanic Starting missive to you via your message today. I think the others were on Earl of Cruise, and are now out of date as I have added "atmosphere" to them. Smell the steam... The next update will have better scans in as I have bought the Bruce Beveridge drawings, but need to ask him if it's OK to replicate them in my stuff.
Last edited:
Stephen Carey
Member
Here you go Brad - you've given me a deadline for the QM! I am endeavouring to finish the rest-house on our farm, whence I can sit there, lord of all I survey, and write it up... Now where's that box?
Stephen
Similar threads
