No, Jim, Groves was at the bridge, and Lord was off the bridge:
“When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along”
How Far Apart were Titanic and Californian?
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“When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along”
No, Sam. First of all Lord probably took no bearings of Carpathia, but used south-west from what Stone told him about Titanic.
Then the survivors reported seeing lots of ice around them in the morning, and according to Lord only some part of the ice field were heavy. In other parts it was so loose that Californian was able to steam full speed.
Besides as I told you before there probably were some eddies on the edges of the ice field.
However, you have not responded my question about Groves testimony on seeing Carpathia 5 miles away at 6:50 am. Apparently you do not believe it, but could you please explain why. Groves had no reason to lie. Was he also confused?
Jim Currie
Member
Nonsense, again, Mila. What they saw at 3-20 in the moring was in a different direction to what they saw earlier. the only way it would have been in the same directin was it Carpathia arriced at Boxhall at 3-2Oam, not 4-10am.
As fot Gill... A lying git!
"I saw a big vessel going along full speed. She looked as if she might be a big German had been on deck about 10 minutes when I saw a white rocket about 10 miles away on the starboard side. I thought it must be a shooting star. In seven or eight minutes I saw distinctly a second rocket in the same place, and I said to myself, "That must be a vessel in distress."
Senator FLETCHER. About 12.30 you began first to see the rockets?
Mr. GILL.Yes, sir; at first, when I saw it was not very plain.
Did you see any lights on the steamer where the rockets were sent up?
Mr. GILL.No, sir; no sign of the steamer at the time.
Senator FLETCHER. As I understand, you never did see the ship, did you?
Mr. GILL. No, sir; not without the one I seen, the big ship, that I told my mate was a German boat - not without that was the ship in question, the Titanic.
A: There were no moving ships around at midnight
B: There is no way to tell the nationality of a ship at night.
B: The first proiperly identifiead rocket was not seen until 00-50 am or therebouts, not 00-40am
C: It was the Second Officer who saw rockets go up in his Watch, not the Third Officer
D: The ship near to the Californian was in plain sight before Gill ended his Watch and was so right up untl after 2 am."
No serious researcher woul ever give Gil a moment's thought. In fact the man comitted a criminal act and he should have been imprisoned for perjury along with the peron who utterd this in the UK
"The suggestion at one time was that he had made a statement which was not true in America about the distress signals having been sent up, and there was a suggestion at one time made that in consequence of a story which he had put forward, which would not bear examination, he had deserted the vessel at Boston. It is no longer necessary to clear that up, because Mr. Gill's story, as told in America, has - I do not want to say more than this - been very much confirmed by the evidence which we have put before the Court of the various officers -"
Jim Currie
Member
MIla, Mila, Mila...Groves came on Duty at 8 pm and Stewart went below, Goves as OOW 8 to12,, night and day. Stewart was OOW 4 to 8 Night and day and Stone wa OOW 12 to 4 night and day.
A bit of friendly advice:
If you are going to argue on his site , I suugest you take a crash course on how a ship is navigated and managed. If you don't you will continue to make a fool of yourself in public.
Jim, if you were not so eager to point out my "mistakes" you might have had more time to read and understand EnglishMIla, Mila, Mila...Groves came on Duty at 8 pm and Stewart went below, Goves as OOW 8 to12,, night and day. Stewart was OOW 4 to 8 Night and day and Stone wa OOW 12 to 4 night and day.
A bit of friendly advice:
If you are going to argue on his site , I suugest you take a crash course on how a ship is navigated and managed. If you don't you will continue to make a fool of yourself in public.
I mean English your native language. Sadly it is not my native language. I really like your English, the way you use idioms and so on, but please do take more time to read it. Lord testified:
“When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along”.
So, at half past 10 Groves was at the Bridge, and Lord and Stewart were off the Bridge.
Did you understand it now, Jim? Do you still believe I should take a crash course on how a ship is navigated and managed? And please do tell me who continues to make a fool of yourself in public, Jim?
What are you talking about? I am talking about the flashes seen by Stone and Gibson at 3:20 and about the very same flashes seen by the survivors in the lifeboats at the very same time.
I also thought Gill was lying, but he described "low-lying" rockets as Stone did:
Senator FLETCHER.
Which, pale blue or white?
Mr. GILL.
It would be apt to be a very clear blue; I would catch it when it was dying. I did not catch the exact tint, but I reckon it was white.
Senator FLETCHER.
Did it look as if the rocket had been sent up and the explosion had taken place in the air and the stars spangled out?
Mr. GILL.
Yes, sir; the stars spangled out. I could not say about the stars. I say, I caught the tail end of the rocket.
Why Gill was not able to catch it before it was "dying"? Why did he testified he caught only "the tali end of the rocket"?
What was a purpose in such a lie? Would not that lie served him better if he described a spectacular rocket bursting up in the sky in a bright explosion? Instead he kind of reaffirmed the testimony of Stone about low-lying rockets.
Cam Houseman
Member
Making someone mad isn't the way to get someone respond.Jim, if you were not so eager to point out my "mistakes" you might have had more time to read and understand English
I mean English your native language. Sadly it is not my native language. I really like your English, the way you use idioms and so on, but please do take more time to read it. Lord testified:
“When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along”.
So, at half past 10 Groves was at the Bridge, and Lord and Stewart were off the Bridge.
Did you understand it now, Jim? Do you still believe I should take a crash course on how a ship is navigated and managed? And please do tell me who continues to make a fool of yourself in public, Jim?
Oh? and you have room to talk Mila? Not to be rude, but you can't say anything:
Post #667
"OK, we slowly getting somewhere. "
Post #680
"Then why Gibson saw three signals in 3 minutes interval?"
Someone should check their grammar.
Cam Houseman
Member
Also, attacking people, as you did me, isn't a good feeling, and just makes people lose interest in the conversation, and leave it, as I, and possibly Sam, have done. Your Attack from the other night about my Ignorance was uncalled for.
I will not participate in this thread anymore. Goodbye, take care, and stay Safe, Mila.
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I am not sure how I will survive without you posting here even though I have never ever attacked you on being ignorant. It was just the opposite. Goodbye, Cam.
So, Sam, your like of Cam’s post means that you too are feeling “attacked“ and you also are not going to post here? Just asking.
Cam Houseman
Member
Last thing.
You can correct Jim's grammar, but when I correct yours, you report the message? Hm. Must be Different for you.
Goodbye.
Back already? So fast.
Keith H
Member
To give an idea of how far apart Titanic was from the Californian , if you were on the bridge of the Titanic the horizon would be about10 miles and about 7 miles from the bridge of the Californian and if you were 6 foot tall and standing up in a lifeboat the horizon would be about 2 and 3/4 miles away , so this gives an idea of who seen who from each of the ships when the first distress rockets were sent up.
Jim Currie
Member
Jim, if you were not so eager to point out my "mistakes" you might have had more time to read and understand English
I mean English your native language. Sadly it is not my native language. I really like your English, the way you use idioms and so on, but please do take more time to read it. Lord testified:
“When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along”.
So, at half past 10 Groves was at the Bridge, and Lord and Stewart were off the Bridge.
Chan e Beurla mo chànan dùthchasach, tha Gàidhlig' English is not my native language, Mila.
Will I reply to you In English or my native tongue? English, I think, since you seem to consider yourself expert enough to lecture me on it.
I can keep this up just as long as you can make inaccurate posts which equates to indefinitely. I am on my own so I have nothing to do but enjoy winding you up.
For instance, If you had cared to digest the the entire Lord quote, you would have discovered.
"When [at the time] I came off the bridge, at half-past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along, and it was a most peculiar light, and we had been making mistakes all along with the stars, thinking they were signals. We could not distinguish where the sky ended and where the water commenced. You understand, it was a flat calm. He [the officer(Groves)] said he thought it was a star, and I did not say anything more. I went down below[after "talking to the officer "(Groves)] I was talking with the engineer about keeping the steam ready".
If Lord had meant past tense, "came" he would not have qualified it by prefixing it with the word "when". He would also have described meeting an officer thereafter. In fact Lord, like many northerners, used the word "when" as a conjunction - i.e. "at the time ".
You may humbly appologise.
Not so fast, Jim.
Here's Lord's testimony from the British Inquiry:
6715. Now close upon 11 o'clock did you see a steamer's light?
- I did.
The Commissioner:
11 o'clock when?
The Attorney-General:
At night, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
This was on Sunday night?
6716. (The Attorney-General.) Yes. (To the Witness.) This was on Sunday night that you had stopped?
- After we had stopped.
6717. And you saw a steamer's light. Was it approaching you?
- It was approaching me from the eastward.
6718. How did it bear?
- I did not get the bearings of it; I was just noticing it casually from the deck.
6719. Where was it? On your quarter?
- It was on the starboard side.
6720. What did you see - what light?
- I just saw a white light to commence with.
6721. Did you then ask your wireless operator what ships he had?
- Yes, I went to his room and I asked him what ships he had.
Samuel Halpern
Member
What Lord meant "from the deck" is that he was outside on deck, not in the chart room or his cabin. Californian, like all vessels, had several decks. The OOW at the time, Groves, was on the upper bridge, or so called flying bridge. When Stone arrived to take over from Groves, Lord stopped him before he went up to replace Groves, It was near the wheelhouse door which was the deck below the upper bridge. I believe it was called the Promenade deck on Californian. It was one deck above the Shelter deck. It was there that Lord pointed out the stopped steamer to Stone and the ice that caused them to stop for night.
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