Identifying crew in photos

[Michael Hinz]

So lastly, here are the 5 more difficult crewmen to identify in that picture:

18 – AB Edward Buley?
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It appears that when they took this photograph the taller men stood at the back while the shorter sat at the front. So who is this thin young guy sitting next to Evans then? Unfortunately, the way he sat put him on a difficult lightning ratio to distinguish details properly, but by what we have, it’s not difficult coming to AB Edward Buley (26) as a potential candidate, by mere process of elimination. Besides, he was 5' 4½" high, so he would certainly be sitting there at the front.


20 – AB Robert Hopkins??
Luckily this fellow is sitting in the front row so we can see him clearly to try identifying him. It’s in fact a rare character, and some suggested it was AB Jones, which is wrong. They are similar but Jones is rather bald, which is not the case with this guy if you look carefully.

Next candidate: it’s also been guessed this was AB Philip Vigott, and there are indeed rather similar. Yet maybe the differences stand out more than the similarities to the closer look. First, there’s something that doesn’t quite match in their expressions and I’d say that our guy sitting in the pic looks a bit older than Vigott too. Then we have some facial feature differences, with our guy having more prominent jaws and chin and more angular features in general. Enough differences perhaps to discredit this man as being Vigott.

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Then? He doesn’t look like AB McCarthy either. So, by process of elimination I just took AB Robert Hopkins (43) into consideration, whose facial features and expression maybe match more than any other, or at least fills the differences that put Vigott out of the list.

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Nevertheless, it’s not 100% for sure, and also Anderson and Foley stay as candidates due to the lack of pictures of them.


21 – AB George McGough??
The only thing in our favour is that we can see his face clearly, for this guy is rather mysterious. In fact, I’m not sure if he is indeed a member of the deck department.

It’s been suggested it was John Poingdestre, although I think he looks more like George McGough. Still, there’s a little problem with this fellow’s obesity if we believe he’s either of them, and his expression is also a bit incompatible with them.

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Taking a closer look at his facial features and proportions I would say that, if he is a seaman, he would most likely be George McGough. Yet, as I said, there’s something about this man that doesn’t quite fit.

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9 – Lookout Alfred Evans??
Another bit of a mysterious fellow, but at least we can infer by his clothing that he is a seaman. He seems to be young, maybe between 22 and 27, medium height –not taller than 5' 7" I would say –.

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There are not many seamen left that could match this case, so let’s see: taking a look at some features of this fellow (hair, face/head shape, expression, body proportions) I would infer it’s not William Lucas, George Symons or William Peters. Then I thought James Forward was not a bad candidate, but looking carefully, our fellow has got like a really youthful air that could only match one of these two: AB Archie Jewell (23) and lookout Alfred Evans (25).


16 - ?

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So, here’s the most difficult crewman to identify. Some put him as William Weller, but I think Weller has a bigger, square chin. Other candidates are William Peters and John Poingdestre, but he doesn’t really match with any of them

Maybe we should even ask ourselves one more time, if he is indeed a member of the crew department.

As Paul assumed, #9 is lookout Archie Jewell (23 years old).

Actually, #16 is William Peters (26 years old). His facial features and hairline are identical.

As you have already guessed, #17 is Alfred Evans (25 years old).

I personally believe that #21 is John Poingdestre (27 years old). His jaws and nose are wider than George McGough's. Also, the facial features resemble those of Poingdestre more than those of McGough. Finally, I must mention that #21 looks younger than 36 years, which was McGoughs age.

 

[Matthew Bowyer Fan]

So let's start with that one
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4. Harold John Arnold Prior
7. Leo James Hyland
9. John Edward Hart
11. Alfred Pugh

 

[Thomas Krom]

After almost 2 years I got a new case that's been brought to my attention.

Today via a friend of mine on Facebook I learned there was a new article published in 'The Atlantic Bulletin', which is the journal of the British Titanic society about quartermaster Hichens named 'Hichens speaks from the grave' with the text below it being 'But he doesn't say very much' as written by Senan Molony.

In this article Molony with help of lip syncing attempts to uncover what the New York filmed Gaumont silent film says. Interested by the story, I directly went to the footage in question.

For those unaware, this is the video on the footage with compliments of the British Pathé:

At 3:49 mistakenly at first after the caption:

"Quartermaster Hitchens (sic) of the "Titanic' who went down with the ship and was afterwards picked up"

It shows the two men above. While presently I haven't seen any first hand attempts of identifying the man on the right, it's clear that it isn't the 29 year old Robert Hichens, who had a much thinner face, less sunken-in eyes and a younger appearence overall. This is first thing I wondered if the man on the right has been identified already. If not, who could it be?

However, the accurate labeling is of the man on the right here. According to the lip-syncing in the article upon being asked his name the man said:

"It's Robert Hichens."

However, I wonder if my pals over here agree with it being Hichens.

As noted by @Gaston Sam back in 2017 it appears in a group photograph that Hichens indeed had a moustache shortly after his arrival in New York. However as seen in picture number 3 and 5 Hichens appeared clean shaven upon his arrival in the United Kingdom, with possibly being drawn with facial hair again in the sketch on the 6th picture I've provided in the line-up.

It leaves me curious now who the deck-crewmember in the first picture is above and if the man in the second picture is indeed quartermaster Hichens or not.

 

[Michael Hinz]

It shows the two men above. While presently I haven't seen any first hand attempts of identifying the man on the right, it's clear that it isn't the 29 year old Robert Hichens, who had a much thinner face, less sunken-in eyes and a younger appearence overall. This is first thing I wondered if the man on the right has been identified already. If not, who could it be?

I am quite sure that this man is QM Sidney Humphreys (52 years old), rescued in lifeboat 11. I think he was the only QM that was never called to give evidence to one of the official inquiries after the sinking.

 

[Thomas Krom]

I am quite sure that this man is QM Sidney Humphreys (52 years old), rescued in lifeboat 11. I think he was the only QM that was never called to give evidence to one of the official inquiries after the sinking.

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What do you make of the Hichens claim?

 

[Michael Hinz]

What do you make of the Hichens claim?

I do not think the crew member in the footage is QM Robert Hichens. In my eyes there are two candidates for this man: Robert John Hopkins (43 years old) and Philip Francis Vigott (32 years old), both able-bodied seamen. Hopkins war identified in post #11 and #34 in the seamen group picture in the Intitute of seamens friends building in New York.

Robert John Hopkins (43 years old)

Philip Francis Vigott (32 years old)

As you can see, both candidates bear a strong physical resemblance to the crew member in the footage. But there is one fact that speaks for Hopkins. I don't know anything about lip-reading, but could it be that Molony got the name wrong? Maybe the sailor didn't say Robert Hichens but Robert Hopkins? It would be the same first name and exactly the same number of syllables.

 

[Thomas Krom]

I do not think the crew member in the footage is QM Robert Hichens. In my eyes there are two candidates for this man: Robert John Hopkins (43 years old) and Philip Francis Vigott (32 years old), both able-bodied seamen. Hopkins war identified in post #11 and #34 in the seamen group picture in the Intitute of seamens friends building in New York.

Robert John Hopkins (43 years old)
View attachment 116964View attachment 116965

Philip Francis Vigott (32 years old)
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As you can see, both candidates bear a strong physical resemblance to the crew member in the footage. But there is one fact that speaks for Hopkins. I don't know anything about lip-reading, but could it be that Molony got the name wrong? Maybe the sailor didn't say Robert Hichens but Robert Hopkins? It would be the same first name and exactly the same number of syllables.

I believe you got him pal.

 

[Julian Atkins]

QM Humphreys was too old for the person @Thomas Krom has posted a pic of, and I definitely don’t think it was QM Hichens either.

(Incidentally, I have previously concentrated a bit of research on Hichens, and only the other month on Humphreys for completely different reasons).

 

[Thomas Krom]

QM Humphreys was too old for the person @Thomas Krom has posted a pic of, and I definitely don’t think it was QM Hichens either.

In the first or second picture? With the first picture I do think it could be Humphreys (unless another match comes up), with the second picture I think it's AB seaman Robert John Hopkins.

 

[Michael Hinz]

QM Humphreys was too old for the person @Thomas Krom has posted a pic of, and I definitely don’t think it was QM Hichens either.

(Incidentally, I have previously concentrated a bit of research on Hichens, and only the other month on Humphreys for completely different reasons).

Well, what speaks for Sidney Humphreys?

• The crewmen in the footage is wearing a quartermasters uniform. There were only seven quartermasters on Titanic, all of them survived the sinking. From the other quartermasters William Wynn (41 years old) is the only one who bears a good resemblence to the man in the footage.
• The shape of Humphreys moustache is identical.
• Also the facial features are and ears look quite similair.

But now back to the other candidate Walter Wynn.

• William Wynn had a height of 5'5, while Humphreys was 5'3. The man in the footage seems to be quite small but it is hard to say how big he really was.
• Walter Wynns nose seems to be smaller than those of the man in the footage.
• His moustache has a different shape.
• He has saggy (I hope, it is the correct word) shoulders, unlike Humphreys, whose shoulders are more straight.

Sidney Humphreys (52 years old)

Walter Wynn (41 years old)

Let me say a few words to the age of this man. People back in 1912 had a really hard life, espacially the workers (an average H&W shipyard worker in 1912 died at the age of 60 years). Most of the men (and women) look much older in those photographs. The beards and the serious facial expression also reinforced this impression. A lot of the men got grey hair with fourty or fifty years. Also note that the survivors were traumatized and shocked after the sinking. Some survivors lost their hair or got grey or white hair (see the photographs of steward Alexander Littlejohn).

At the age of 52 years, Sidney Humphreys was on of the oldest members of the deck department. I guess the man in our footage here is not younger than 50 years old but not older than 60 years old and this matches with Sidney Humphreys age of 52 years.

I would say Sidney Humphreys is still our best candidate.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Sidney Humphreys (52 years old)

To me, those two photographs definitely look like belonging to one and the same person. So, if you are certain that the second one is QM Humphreys (and his ET bio says that it is), then the first one is also him. Note the very similar slightly disdainful expressions; it must have been a mannerism.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

QM Humphreys. I believe that is what he signed on as. However, Titanic had only six QMs who stood QM watches, three in the so called port watch (Perkis, Wynn and Bright), and three in the so called starboard watch (Hichens, Olliver and Rowe). Humpherys apparently served as an AB.

 

[Michael Hinz]

That is correct. I remember reading that in Günter Bäbler's crew book. Although, in New York, Humphreys wears a quartermasters uniform.

 

[Seumas]

Michael and Thomas are quite correct, it's clearly Humphreys.

 

[Julian Atkins]

In respect of @Thomas Krom and his post 183 on here, has it subsequently been edited because the second British Pathe pic was the one I was commenting upon and I don’t recall the now first British Pathe pic - which I agree could clearly be Humphreys.

Is this where confusion has arisen, as I don’t recall seeing what is now the first pic in post 183 originally.