Paul Burrell
Member
I think that number 21 might be AB George Moore. His stocky build and face shape fits.
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Identifying crew in photos
- Thread starter Paul Burrell
- Start date
Gaston Sam
Member
Well, they have some similarities... I don't know
Paul Burrell
Member
Has anyone done a study as to who is who in the crew photos posted here? I am not tech savvy so cannot put names on the photos and post them up myself but am interested if someone has already done this.
I can see some familiar faces, particularly in the cooks and stewards photo - Maynard, Hardy and Baggott.
B-rad
Member
Besides the attempts here, I don't believe so. Unfortunately we do not have a picture of what everyone looked like so making a 100% identification would be extremely difficult if not impossible. The quality of the pictures also doesn't help as some people look like they could be one or more people. Hats off to anyone who has tried though. Best bet... find a period source that lists the names, which I have not seen.
Paul Burrell
Member
Just discovered a short piece of film on YouTube of the Carpathia arriving at New York and Titanic crew. I can see James Forward, one chap looks like Horswill (perhaps Pascoe), maybe Frank Evans. There is at least one other member of the deck department. Any ideas of the identity of the crew in this picture.
Seumas
Member
I think the fella third from the right with the moustache, jumper and flat cap looks a bit like Alfred Olliver.
Has anyone had a go at trying to identify these pictures of the stewards and firemen ?
Paul Burrell
Member
In the photo called ‘Stokers of Titanic’, I believe the tall chap standing at the back left is Frederick Doel. Could be Thomas Knowles seated far left.
In the photo called ‘Rescued Cooks and Stewards...’, Isaac Maynard is standing second from left, Charles Burgess is standing far right, John Hardy is seated fourth from left and Baggott is sat on the floor. Maybe Leo Hyland standing second from the right.
I can not identify anyone in the firemen survivors photo.
This is a more difficult exercise than the deck department who had more exposure, there are more photos, their uniforms provide a clue and they are a smaller pool to identify from. Would be interested if anyone else has identified crew in these photos.
Alex Kiehl
Member
Saloon Steward William Burke, the short one in front, second from right, with peaked cap, perhaps? To me, the fellow on the far right is standing slightly behind the man whom I believe to be Burke.
Paul Burrell
Member
I think that our mystery man could be trimmer Thomas Dillon. As well as similar facial features, Dillon was an able seaman by trade and had previously served on White Star Line ships in that capacity. It was only on Titanic that he signed on as a trimmer. So, whilst he was not a member of the deck department on this one voyage, it would make sense for him to be photographed amongst these colleagues, some (many?, we can only guess) of whom he would undoubtedly know from a career at sea in the deck department.
Seumas
Member
I really don't think that chap is Dillon. Pictured here on the left at the British inquiry.
But I'm also going to revise my earlier post identifying Alfred Olliver as the man third from the right with the moustache, jumper and flat cap who is featured in the newsreel still.
On second thoughts he looks a lot more like Sam Hemming to me.
Paul Burrell
Member
If this is indeed Dillon, I agree with you. My hesitation is that there are lots of pictures like this one where different sources show the same picture but have differing opinions of who is who, particularly George Beauchamp for some reason. My opinion was based on the - albeit older - picture of Dillon on his bio on this website.
Regarding the other photo re Olliver/Hemming. Very interesting. I thought that chap was Horswill. The guy on the far left is a mystery, any ideas at all on him? If only we had photos of everyone like Foley etc.
Seumas
Member
No problem mate
Vigott perhaps ? I'm not 100% on that fella though.
By the time their mandatory ID photographs were taken in 1919/20, some of these men who had facial hair in 1912 may by 19/20 have been clean shaven. Stressful wartime experiences may also have left some of them looking old for their age.
Shame the photographer didn't make a list of the men's names back in 1912. These are fascinating pictures.
Cyndi Larrimore
Guest
Who is the man on the far left? With the mustache?
Paul Burrell
Member
The short answer is that I am not sure. He does not look like any of the 23 members of the deck department in the New York photo so that narrows in down. Another poster suggested Vigott. There are some members of the deck department for whom no photo is available. We may never know.
Gaston Sam
Member
Resuming with the IDs, I thought this one of a group of stewards during the British Inquiry was a good choice. It was taken later than those pictures we’ve been examining but its quality and lightning conditions make it easier to work with, and I think the IDs for this one haven’t been worked out yet. Besides, it might help with the other photographs as well.
#1 - Arthur Lewis
Beginning with #1, I first thought of Frederick Ray and William Lucas (the steward), but wasn’t quite convinced. Then I ran across Arthur Lewis (27), and having a look at his personal data, I found he was 5' 10" tall, which stands perfectly for the height of this #1 man.
#2 - Harold Phillimore
#2 seems to be fairly easy, as all his facial traits match with Harold Phillimore’s, including that particular frown.
#3 - Jacob Gibbons?
With #3 I have some doubts, but I'd make a bet on Jacob Gibbons with some good similarities between both.
#4 - Joseph Chapman
To complete the resemblance of our fourth man to Joseph Chapman, just add a moustache on the latter and it works perfectly.
#5 - Henry Reginald Lee
Resulting from a first scan for similarities with available profiles, I’d pick Henry Reginald Lee as a quite convincing candidate.
#6 - Walter Williams
At first sight this one man may look like the oldest of the group, but apparently no match comes forth from checking the available and known pictures of surviving stewards. So with an estimation of age and height I started guessing among the unpictured men, when I found a couple of stewards photographs, and there was a man with a similar look and also wearing clothes similar to the man in question; without the cap, in this other pictures, his facial features are a bit more appreciated, and then it came to me that he had a high resemblance to steward Walter Williams (28).
#7 - John Hardy
Here stands this man with a slight sense of rank over the others but also some ambiguity around his identity as there are a couple crewmen who are similar to him, but I eventually decided a good bet would bet John Hardy.
#8 - James Hyland
Without difficulty I’d say this one lad is James Hyland.
#9 - Percy Ball
One of the shortest man in this photograph and most likely the youngest of all. Checking through the youngest survivors of the victualing crew, the best bet would be Percy Ball, who was 18 by then.
#10 - Allen Baggott
Yet another young lad, for whose identity Allen Baggot suits just right.
#11 - Horace Ross
With an unmistakable physiognomy, I’d say this one is the easiest ID for this picture.
#12 - Andrew Simmons
Another relatively easy identification here and we have steward Andrew Simmons, 5' 5" in height and whose facial traits and stature match quite right with this twelfth subject.
#13 - Charles Savage
Another tall young man here, and 23 years old Charles Savage is the best match without difficulty; being 5' 10½" tall, he coincides with this man’s stature (compare him with Simmons to the left).
#14 - Isaac Widgery?
Having found no pictures of this man, I filtered through the remainder unpictured stewards, and my strongest bet would be Isaac Widgery, 37 years old and 5' 10" tall.
#15 - Frank Port
And the last fellow is another easy ID, being Frank Port the chosen one, 22 years old and 5' 7½" tall.
Now there’s something interesting to remark, and that’s the fact that all these gentlemen were saved in the starboard after lifeboats, except Phillimore who was rescued from the water by lifeboat 14, and John Hardy, who left in collapsible D, the last boat lowered from Titanic davits.
Also, none of them were called to testify at that one Inquiry.
#1 - Arthur Lewis
Beginning with #1, I first thought of Frederick Ray and William Lucas (the steward), but wasn’t quite convinced. Then I ran across Arthur Lewis (27), and having a look at his personal data, I found he was 5' 10" tall, which stands perfectly for the height of this #1 man.
#2 - Harold Phillimore
#2 seems to be fairly easy, as all his facial traits match with Harold Phillimore’s, including that particular frown.
#3 - Jacob Gibbons?
With #3 I have some doubts, but I'd make a bet on Jacob Gibbons with some good similarities between both.
#4 - Joseph Chapman
To complete the resemblance of our fourth man to Joseph Chapman, just add a moustache on the latter and it works perfectly.
#5 - Henry Reginald Lee
Resulting from a first scan for similarities with available profiles, I’d pick Henry Reginald Lee as a quite convincing candidate.
#6 - Walter Williams
At first sight this one man may look like the oldest of the group, but apparently no match comes forth from checking the available and known pictures of surviving stewards. So with an estimation of age and height I started guessing among the unpictured men, when I found a couple of stewards photographs, and there was a man with a similar look and also wearing clothes similar to the man in question; without the cap, in this other pictures, his facial features are a bit more appreciated, and then it came to me that he had a high resemblance to steward Walter Williams (28).
#7 - John Hardy
Here stands this man with a slight sense of rank over the others but also some ambiguity around his identity as there are a couple crewmen who are similar to him, but I eventually decided a good bet would bet John Hardy.
#8 - James Hyland
Without difficulty I’d say this one lad is James Hyland.
#9 - Percy Ball
One of the shortest man in this photograph and most likely the youngest of all. Checking through the youngest survivors of the victualing crew, the best bet would be Percy Ball, who was 18 by then.
#10 - Allen Baggott
Yet another young lad, for whose identity Allen Baggot suits just right.
#11 - Horace Ross
With an unmistakable physiognomy, I’d say this one is the easiest ID for this picture.
#12 - Andrew Simmons
Another relatively easy identification here and we have steward Andrew Simmons, 5' 5" in height and whose facial traits and stature match quite right with this twelfth subject.
#13 - Charles Savage
Another tall young man here, and 23 years old Charles Savage is the best match without difficulty; being 5' 10½" tall, he coincides with this man’s stature (compare him with Simmons to the left).
#14 - Isaac Widgery?
Having found no pictures of this man, I filtered through the remainder unpictured stewards, and my strongest bet would be Isaac Widgery, 37 years old and 5' 10" tall.
#15 - Frank Port
And the last fellow is another easy ID, being Frank Port the chosen one, 22 years old and 5' 7½" tall.
Now there’s something interesting to remark, and that’s the fact that all these gentlemen were saved in the starboard after lifeboats, except Phillimore who was rescued from the water by lifeboat 14, and John Hardy, who left in collapsible D, the last boat lowered from Titanic davits.
Also, none of them were called to testify at that one Inquiry.
