Lifeboat drill

[Samuel Halpern]

Anybody ever think about the fact that airlines depend on the passengers who occupy the emergency rows to help in evacuating other passengers through those window exits. Anyone ever heard one of those passengers, who asked to be seated there in the first place because of increased legroom, ever admit that they would not be up to doing that task? Or better yet, actually read the placard that describes what they are supposed to do? That has got to be the biggest joke in commercial airline safety today. I'd rather fly small planes as pilot in command. At least I know what I can, and cannot do.

Dave G. How much are you asking? I know one in Brooklyn. Want to trade?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>If you think that's going to happen in real life, there's a rather nice bridge in Sydney that I'd like to sell you. <<

And here I wss ready to offer a statue in New York Harbour to any takers for that one. Looks like Sam had dibs on the bridge. I would offer the observation that a when either cruise lines or scareairlines do the drills to demonstrate that they can evacuate a plane or a ship in a given amount of time, that what you see is a well staged ans well rehearsed "Dog And Pony Show." It shows what can be acomplished under ideal conditions and presumes that everything will work.

It kind or reminds me of battle drills on my old ship where we get "hit" by one of those monster Soviet cruise missiles and all we get is a fan room fire. (Suuuuurrrreeee....riiiiiiiiggggghhhttt) We played the game but nobody was fooled.

The problem is that whenever things go straight to hell in the real world, you won't have ideal conditions. You'll have a rapidly changing and highly dynamc situtation where a lot of things won't work and The Plan is the first thing out the window.

 

[David G. Brown]

Plans may go out the window, but knowledge and training do not. A disciplined, trained crew can do wonders, even when the situation has gone so far to H... that it's on its way back again. Although it is impossible to plan for exactly what happens in real life, crews that have worked together in training will be more productive than those who have not.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>crews that have worked together in training will be more productive than those who have not.<<

True enough. That's one area where the military has a substantial advantage over the merchent marine. The crews tend to be held together for long periods with a fairly well controlled and predictable rate of turnover. The crew you go out with on WestPac is going to be largely the same as crew you were with during workups. amd will be mostly the same when you return home six months later.

Try as they might, the merchent marine doesn't enjoy that measure of stability. Fortunately, they rarely have to go into combat.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Does anyone know the training requirements that the victualling crew (stewards, waiters, etc.) of a cruise ship must go through these days in evacuation procedures, lifeboat launching and manning, fire fighting, etc.? I know first hand that they do conduct various drills that involve some of these folks while the cruise ship is docked in a port of call and most of the passengers are off the ship. At least I've seen this on RC ships.

 

[Paul Visser]

Hi people,

It is good to be back on this forum again. It looks like I have missed quite a bit since I was here last.

Regarding parachutes in planes, they won’t work too well in that nobody can open the doors at cruise altitude, or anything above 8000 feet for that matter.

The reason is because a commercial airliner’s cabin pressurizes and maintains a pressure of 8000 feet. The doors work the same way as a bath plug does. They close from the inside, so as the air pressure outside the cabin gets thinner, the air pressure inside the cabin pushes them closed.

They are however equipped with life rafts, and the emergency slides can be used as life rafts as well. Every passenger also has a life belt under his/her seat, not that they will be much use in the middle of the Atlantic.

Last, but not least, if a plane is going to crash, you are far better off staying on the plane until it has crashed. Pretty bleak, isn’t it.

Regrds,

Paul Visser

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Last, but not least, if a plane is going to crash, you are far better off staying on the plane until it has crashed. Pretty bleak, isn’t it.<<

In an airliner, there really isn't any other option. I'm not sure it's "better," but when it's not possible to get away, it's a moot point. Hell, even if airliners had "parachutes for all," can you imagine trying to get anywhere from 100 to 500 people to the exits in an orderly fashion in mid air to bail out as the plane disintigrates around them?

Not happening!

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Most plane crashes occur during takeoff or landing. Few occur because of some natural event at cruise altitude. But what might happen at 30,000 ft is a loss of cabin pressure and those oxygen masks deploying. What they don't tell you during those safety demonstrations that few people pay attention to these days is that you have only about 30 seconds to get that mask on before you'll pass out. I love all those smiling people they show in those safety videos. Hard to take anything seriously when they present that staged image.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Hard to take anything seriously when they present that staged image.<<

Good point. The safety messages are something I always take seriously whenever I'm flying and it never hurts to review the card in the seat in front of you. Unfortunately, I've seen waaaaaayyyy to many passengers sleeping through the message.

Getting back to ships, I wonder how many passengers "sleep on their feet" through the lifeboat drills on cruise ships today?

 

[Paul Visser]

You have far more than 30 seconds at any altitude. I have no idea where you got that little bit of information from. How long can you stop breathing without holding your breath? I can keep it up for about a minute. I could keep it up longer if I tried. It will take 5 seconds to reach up and put the mask on.

What they also don't tell you about decompression, is that the oxygen tanks that supply those masks are only good for about 10 or 15 minutes. The pilot has to make an emergency decent to a flight level of about 10000 feet as quickly as possible so that everybody can breathe normally again. In most cases, the plane lands safely.

There are, however, many cases where planes have lost hydraulic pressure, or had onboard fires at cruise altitude where cabins still remained pressurized and crashed. I have read about plenty of mechanical failures that have caused planes to crash.

On a plane, we must remember that a mechanical failure can happen anywhere. On takeoff and landing, most crashes are caused by pilot error.

Regards,

Paul

 

[David G. Brown]

Perhaps we should pass out parachutes to cruise ship passengers? Or, did I miss something.

Lifeboat drills are a CYA exercise protecting: 1.) the government inspecting agency (e.g. the Coast Guard in the United States); and 2.) the shipowners.

Whether the passengers learn anything is not the important thing. What matters is to log that the drills were done.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Paul, it was some time ago, but I think it was in a flight attendant's manual.

David, your absolutely right on. It's an exercise in getting people from their cabin to their muster station, and seeing that everyone is in compliance. It has nothing to do with launching or loading lifeboats.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>You have far more than 30 seconds at any altitude. I have no idea where you got that little bit of information from.<<

If I recall correctly, this information came about as a result of experiments the U.S. Air Force conducted over half a century ago. The issue isn't so much a matter of retaining counciousness as it is the consequence of a sudden lack of oxygen being supplied to the brain. You may stay awake for a spell, but you'll lose any effective control of your faculties well before you pass out.