Lusitania Memorials

[Noel F. Jones]

"Senan at no point has questioned whether placards were placed around the Lusitania memorial."

Well that's news to me Inger. Get this:

"I'm sorry, but this is a wild, nonsensical and
untrue claim."

And:

"It is absurd. It is preposterous. It is untrue."

When I am assailed in such manner what to you expect me to do? Capitulate? Sorry Inger, I'm not of that kidney.

"The issues you differ on are whether these constitute a 'desecration', and whether these were targeted specifically at the Lusitania because of a perceived Englishness."

I couldn't disagree more. Mr Moloney was clearly seeking to deny that the primary desecration, (the hedging about of the memorial with substantial IRA propaganda placards over a period of time) ever took place, never that the rationale you now put forward obtained. Go back and read the posts.

And if you want deconstruction and prolixity, Mr Moloney put to me the following:

"........Your contention is that the Cob Town Council and the townspeople of Cobh engaged in prolonged xenophobia.

The council were either pusillanimous or tacitly supported the hijacking over "months and years" of their central monument. That charge is bad enough.

The police, of course, stood idly for the same period by during this strange vigil by malcontents."

Exactly. Those were PRECISELY the consequent allegations made in the British press at the time. As to whether the inaction of the municipality and/or the police stemmed from "xenophobia" or intimidation, you must enquire locally. The consensus favoured the latter.

On a detail: the plinth of Nelson's column has provided a convenient podium for issues contentious and otherwise ever since it was built. That does not categorise as a desecration (the structure is rather large for that in any case!).

As the record will show (if anyone should care to go back and actually read it), all I originally did was provide some contextual countervailing information without any political 'side' to it. This being Ireland, I knew there was a risk that some would rise, as to a bait, and seek to politicise it but I did not expect to encounter such irrational vehemence. Or indeed – and regrettably – from a quarter that I hitherto regarded as accruing some gravitas.

All-in-all I consider I have shown commendable restraint in responding to an unprovoked attack upon my veracity and integrity. As the matter clearly remains unresolved I'm minded to spend the money (you'll have to go back and look that one up an'all).

For the time being I look forward to receiving Mr Moloney's meet apology in due course.

Noel

 

[Inger Sheil]

I couldn't disagree more. Mr Moloney was clearly seeking to deny that the primary desecration, (the hedging about of the memorial with substantial IRA propaganda placards over a period of time) ever took place, never that the rationale you now put forward obtained. Go back and read the posts.

I have read the posts - again - from begining to end. Doing so makes it quite clear to me that you do not understand the point Senan is disputing(and, incidently, why others are so resoundingly of the opinion expressed here publicly and privately that enough of your axe grinding is quite enough). As your own cites make clear, Senan made no claim that placards were never erected in, on or near the vicinity of the memorial. What he did dispute is the view put forward by you that this consituted a prolonged 'desecration' of the memorial, and the implications of xenophobia on the part of the local population, continuing to this day.

Again - you are operating from something you remember reading about decades ago, regarding a highly contentious political point that polarised public opinion not just in Ireland or England, but around the world. While you desire to present yourself as having no 'political side' to your posts, a side is most certainly discerned by many who have read this thread. The very characterisation of the placards as a 'desecration' rather than as 'a protest', and your interpretation of their placement indicate that there is most certainly a 'side' to your comments. You compound this by your theorising on the present-day reactions of Cobh residents to questioning on the matter of the placards might be, without proferring any evidence as to this being the case (but then, of course, coming from 'the mainland' and 'this being Ireland' your own entrenched biases are such that I wonder if you're even cognisant of the calumny that is so clearly evident to others).

The analogy of Nelson's column (as with other memorials, such as those located in DC) is an excellent and apt one. All of these, because of their location, have been convenient focal points for demonstrations. There were demonstrations all over the world over the events that took place in 1981. You compound this by your theorising on the present-day reactions of Cobh residents to questioning on the matter of the placards might be, without proferring any evidence as to this being the case (but then, of course, coming from 'the mainland' and 'this being Ireland' your own entrenched biases are such that I wonder if you're even cognisant of the calumny that is so clearly evident to others).

All-in-all I consider I have shown commendable restraint in responding to an unprovoked attack upon my veracity and integrity.

You're a one-man band in that regard - I don't think you have shown any restraint at all, but rather considerable self-indulgence and not a little self-congratulation in your posts. As responses in this thread indicate, people want to talk about the Lusitania - and that is difficult to do with your resounding and deafening axe-grinding. Your contribution to this thread has been neither constructive or instructive.

For the time being I look forward to receiving Mr Moloney's meet apology in due course.

If anyone has shown admirable, commendable and, indeed, quite noble restraint in this thread, it is Senan Molony - whose name you apparently can't even spell correctly. If an apology is owed by anyone, it is your own to the people who have tried to participate in this thread, only to have the discussion derailed by your decision to introduce a highly contentious political issue and to continue pushing it, ignoring all efforts to turn the flow of discussion back to the anniversary commemorations.

It is clear that your view is so narrow and so blinkered you have no idea why members of this board have made their views that 'enough is enough' known. Rather than continuing your personal vendetta on this issue, igniting further bitter political controversy, I suggest you contribute something constructive to the discussion about the Lusitania.

 

[Paul Rogers]

This discussion has more than run its course, and everyone has had ample opportunity to state (and re-state) their views.

Time to move on, I feel.