Possible Captain Smith Suicide

>>Hey Roy, how can you forget Happy New Year?

Hey, Sam! Yikes! New Year celebrations are a whole 'nother kettle of fish!

Okay, so here's a list of lots and lots of Winter Festivals that are celebrated somewhere by somebody:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winter_festivals

>>How about "Bon Perhelia" in honor of the upcoming perihelion passage on Jan 4th?

Spacey, dude!
'-)

Hi, Michael!

>>Regarding the stories, whatever one may say of them, they are at least broadly consistant with what Bride entered into sworn testimony

That's exactly what I took away from them. Three different people in three different places all seeing the same event (Smith jumping) from the same place at the same time. Of the three, only McGann mentioned the kids, so his story remains unique. But as we discussed, heroic rumours can easily spring from mundane occurrences. In the chaos you properly mention, it would have been easy for an observer to overlook a small kid standing next to a big captain. Not that there was a kid, mind you . . .

Hi, David!

>>Why would he want to commit suicide?

Captains didn't just automatically go down with their ships - it's a romantic notion that doesn't always hold up. Captain Inman Sealby, f'r instance, commanded the Republic when it sank in 1909. He was rescued from a floating crate and lived to comment on the Titanic's sinking.

In a very limited way, Smith did commit suicide by refusing aid once he left the Titanic. Several people - enough to show a pattern - spotted him in the water very close to Collapsible B. I'll go out on a limb here and say I believe he could have been saved. But think of the roasting he, Murdoch and Moody would have received if they'd ever been put on the witness stand. Smith had a lot on his mind in those final moments and I'm sure that was one of them. As I've said before, there were corporate considerations involved that carried every bit as much weight as human ones, if not more. And, turning briefly to Bruce "Snidely" Ismay, it's likely corporate considerations caused him to step into that lifeboat far more than cowardice, panic, or mental overload.

BTW, David, I know this is an unpopular "take" on things, but I'm sticking with it, at least until I'm roundly corrected by the Ghosts of Titanic Past.
'-)

Roy
 
Thats true, Roy, i'm sure there were many things that went through his head to do with what would happen if he were to save himself, but thats probably why he would go down with his ship! They were not guilty of any serious negligence or missconduct. He took notice of ice warnings that for the majority of his carrer he got by without, altered his course slightly south of the internationaly recognised 'safe' shipping lanes, and warned all his crew with the extra ice vigil - "if at all doubtfull, let me know..." etc. He had nothing to be guilty of other than not being able to execute his orders due to the severity and irony of the situation. He wouldnt die just because he didnt want get a roasting at a hearing, especialy with a teenage daughter and wife at home - people who later erected a bronze stature in Litchfield in his honor! haha. It was now almost his duty to die, and i bet he couldnt bring himself to get in a boat after seeing death taking place all round him. It's not hard for a 1912 62 yr old to die on the Titanic, especialy if he's swimming round in those waters.....
Captain Sealby may have survived, but I'm sure he wasnt looking at the inevitable death of 1500 or so of his passengers...his much smaller ship would have been able to accomodate them much more effectively in the boats. And of course the Lusitania sank within swimming distance of Kinsale, southern Ireland, and was torpedoed, there was no reason for the captain not to be rescued, and Turner was not villified at all, infact he went on for many privilages in his good career i believe.
 
Oh, yeah, Turner took a lot of heat for the Lusitania sinking, including criticism from First Sea Lord Jacky Fisher, Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill - and a Board of Trade inquiry headed up by none other than Lord Mersey (Charles Bigham) himself. In 1917, Turner was also summoned to testify in a United States/Lusitania inquiry. Both inquiries found it ultimately more convenient and desirable to blame the Germans entirely and so they let Turner off the hook. Smith, I'm afraid, wouldn't have had that luxury.

Roy
 
Re: Sealby of the Republic. Of 742 total passengers and crew, only 6 were lost. The survivors had Marconi operator Jack Binns to thank for that.

The following quotation may have an oddly familiar ring to it:

"Captain Sealby came down from the bridge upon deck and spoke to a group of passengers standing near. 'I do not think the ship will sink,' he told them. 'She may go down to a certain point, but it is likely her watertight compartments will keep her from sinking.' He was given three cheers."

New York Herald, January 26, 1909.
_________________

Roy
 
>>Smith, I'm afraid, wouldn't have had that luxury.<<

Quite right. He wouldn't have, and we've discussed what the consequences would have been several times. Had he survived, I'm of the opinion that the savage roasting he would have recieved would have made all and sundry forget about the Californian. Dead, he became a hero, alive, he would have been a zero.
 
I doubt from what we know about Capt. Smith's background that he would have taken the easy way out. His age would have been a big disadvantage once he entered the water in the severe conditions. If you point to Gracie's survival he did not live long.

Professor Noakes, who looks after that guy who makes a habit of swimming in freezing water says, quote: "most people would struggle to last a minute in such harsh conditions. You would be disabled in seconds and drown before hypothermia had a chance to set in". Quite a significant statement in terms of what happened to the folk on Titanic.
 
Indeed, Ernie. Although I suppose the 1912 lifebelts might have supported the victims long enough for them not to drown, but to die of hypothermia. Not sure which would be worse. In fact, many people may have been dead before they even hit the water - vagus nerve inhibition.

Anyone wanting to know who makes a habit of swimming in freezing water can find out on General Titanic, Lunatic Englishman thread.

PS Ernie - Zoe. Robbed.
 
Hi Monica

Yes, the lifebelts would probably have save them from drowning and prolonged the agony in most cases. You and I, with our slim dancing figures would have gone down and not come up.

"PS Ernie - Zoe. Robbed." I won't comment further - don't want to upset Nancy
 
quote:

You and I, with our slim dancing figures would have gone down and not come up.
Click to expand...
Well, that's a fact. I nearly had cardiac arrest in the shower the other morning when my son put the washer on while I was in there, thus reducing the temperature to what felt like freezing. Combination boilers!

PS Colin. Bah.​
 
Had a job finding lunatic Englishman under General Titanic. it's under Lost and Saved, Monica.

I posted the result of his latest swim under Aftermath/In the freezing water/hyperthermia prevention.

PS Darren? Not a bad cricketer - shame it was a dancing competition.
 
>>His age would have been a big disadvantage once he entered the water in the severe conditions. If you point to Gracie's survival he did not live long.

Smith was 62; Gracie was 53. The way people aged back then, Gracie was a lot closer to Smith than, say, to Jack Thayer, Jr.

Gracie's escape was a violent one, as was Lightoller's. Smith just jumped into the water and from not very high up at that. Several people witnessed him jump and several more people saw him, or thought they saw him, very near to collapsible B. Collapsible B was populated by 20 to 30 guys who were literally fished out of the drink, so rules of etiquette and chivalry no longer applied. A few of those guys said later they'd offered to assist him - or someone who looked and sounded like him - but that he refused. Anyway, that's the way they told it. Then, depending on who's story you accept (if any), he either swam away saying, "Good-bye, boys. I'm going to follow the ship," or he died then and there. That's about where his story ends.

As I said before, I believe Smith could have been rescued had he wanted to be. There were no "women and children first (...or only)" rules in force for anyone who managed to reach collapsible B - even with Lightoller in charge. Smith was not bound by any rule saying all captains must go down with their ships. This latest "mishap" was the last in a string of accidents to have dogged him in recent years, a fact that was beginning to worry even him. Those others were minor in comparison, but this was a career breaker - a crash course in how to go from being the most beloved captain on the North Atlantic run to the most reviled worm on the face of the planet in two and three-quarter hours. Referring back to what Michael and Steve said, can you imagine the uproar if, instead of Ismay, Smith had survived - or if they both had? The worst-case scenario for the WSL that I can imagine is if Smith, Wilde, Murdoch and Moody had all survived and been forced to testify.

Roy
 
The only question I would have with that is why would Captain Smith jump off the Titanic if he intended to go down with it anyway? Why not stay on the bridge or in the wheelhouse and get it over with? Maybe a last-minute thought of self preservation or panic? I've always been curious as to why he would have jumped. Thanks guys.
 

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