Sara Elizabeth and John Chapman

[Mike Poirier]

Hello Bob
Well since one English person says it correct and another English person says it is not correct, I guess it's better to let English people debate the nuances of their dialect. I will say, the word lawyer, was not always common on your side of the pond. Agatha Christie once mentioned that when talking about the denouement of one of her books. I see it is used more frequently now, but apparently it was not always so.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Michael, we're not discussing the nuances of dialect here, but the interpretation of a book written in standard English. During his Gold Rush episode, Lightoller writes of teaming up with a group which included two Americans from the Black Hills. He refers to them as "our Western States men". So we do know that Lightoller used that term to mean just what we would expect it to mean, and was well qualified to recognise the characteristics of Westerners. And he surely recognised them on the boat deck that night.
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[Mike Poirier]

Hello Bob,
Actually if you throw away dialect and other spurious details- you are working with an account written well over 20 years later. Did he mention this couple in 1912 letters, accounts, or testimony? How can we be sure this was not some flourish he decided to add to the story?
I've read certain things in his book that I don't think happened the way he remembered it. So we should not take every word he writes as fact!

Going back to dialect, since he was exposed to Americans- can you be sure that he did not take to calling certain parts of England- 'Western states'? We just don't know.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

I certainly agree, Michael, that an autobiography can be populated to some extent with composite characters, more representative than real. But I have no doubt whatsoever that Lightoller was describing this particular couple (whether real or imagined) as natives of the American West. Lightoller was a well-travelled man and knew his geography. We know that elsewhere in the same publication he used the term 'Western States' correctly to signify a region of your country. We can be equally certain that he knew that there are no 'Western States' in his own country, either on the ground or in the vocabulary. I can't state my case any plainer, but I see I cannot convince you. Others of course can decide for themselves. I look forward to other discussions in the future but this one, I think, has nowhere else to go in the absence of comment from the researcher you have mentioned - he who favours a couple from the Western States of England.
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[Mike Poirier]

Yes, I see that you are immovable in your position as well, which is your prerogative.
We just have to accept that dialect is constantly changing and that if the event with the couple did happen, which there is 50-50 possibility that it did not, he was not entirely clear. If you can find exact evidence- than that can put the matter to rest. I think another person from England commented a few years ago on this, and said the may have a been a British couple as well. I am sure it is here somewhere on the board. Goodness knows what thread it is under.

 

[AmyCavenaugh]

I'm interested in finding out more about John Henry Chapman and his wife, Sarah Elizabeth Lawry Chapman. I first learned of their story from this site and am fascinated by their story. There isn't a whole lot of information about them online and some info conflicts. I would especially like to find photos of them but so far have been unable. I am thinking of writing a story based on them so any and all information would be appreciated.

 

[Richard Paola]

Amy .. i realize your posting is quite old.. I'm sure you saw the Chapman story in the Gill Paul book 'Titanic-Love Stories'?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I have read that Sara Chapman was in the vicinity of both Lifeboat #4 and later Collapsible D when they were launched from the port side at 01:55 am and 02:05 am respectively. Reportedly she refused to leave her husband and so remained on the Titanic and died with him.

 

[Matt French]

I visited that museum in Cornwall just after it opened and, without exaggeration, seeing John's pocket watch was the most impactful thing I have ever experienced. Historical figures can often feel so distant, so unlike us, so much closer to fiction than reality, and yet here was a watch that seemed to turn a century into nothing - and turned John Chapman from a historical charater into a real person who I will never get the chance to know. It was at that point that the visceral horror struck me. I hotfooted out of that building FAST.