[QUOTE=Ioannis Georgiou;371060]Something I have learn over the years is that you can not talk with such people. They hear or read something and are of the opinion that they are right and know everything."
So true Ioannis.
Hello Jonathan.
I think the proper English word for your friend is pedantic. Maybe if you had asked him to back-up his belief other than quoting from a book then he might have been less inclined to argue. On the other hand, perhaps you were too generous and he simply couldn't hold his whisky?
Ioannis is 100% on the money. He and I have crossed swords on occassion but usually we back out arguments up with information from indisputable sources. In our case, it is usually a matter of personal interpretation.
Lightoller was still in his kip when that last or second last engine order was given. He would only know about engine movements from Boxhall and even he, Boxhall, wouldn't know the full story since he too was off the bridge for most of the final 10 minutes of engine movements.
QM Olliver stated that he saw 'Half Ahead' when he was on the bridge. We don't know when that was since he was off the bridge a great deal during the first 20 minutes after impact.
Besides Ismay's alleged dictate, there's another allegation connected with the Half Ahead order which among the purveyors brooks no argument. It has alternatively been alleged that the Half Ahead order was given to help turn the ship to avoid the iceberg but that too is nonsense.
You too are 100% correct. In the event of an emergency, any non essential personnel would be given short-shrift. Titanic's 5th Officer Lowe used 'intemperate' language when Ismay got in his way during lifeboat preparations. I can assure you, if Ismay had got in Smith's way when the man in question was in a high state of anxiety, politeness would not have been the order of the day. The expression 'flee in the ear' would mildly describe Smith's response.
People who have never served on the bridge of a ship can be forgiven for making silly observations about what goes on there but there's little excuse for them backing-up 2nd or 3rd hand stories unless they are in turn, able to back up such stories with factual evidence.
Jim C.
PS Sam, just saw your post. The faces of the bridge telegraphs would be lit. Olliver would quite easily see what order was on them. In fact it was Smith who rang down the engine order. I quote:
"Mr. OLLIVER.
The captain telegraphed half speed ahead.
This tells us that Smith didn't give a verbal order, he did what most captains do in such a situation, he rang down himself. If he meant to use the rudder, that engine order would have been preceded with a question to QM Hichens. The sequence would have been something like ..."How's her head?" followed with a helm order of "Steady as she goes" or "Bring her round to..." or "Hard-a-port" or "Hard-a-starboard". If he meant to stop her from moving astern, he would not have rang down but would have gone to his bridge wing and had Murdoch stand by the telegraph. He would have watched the engine overboard discharge trail on the smooth sea. When the ship had no forward or astern movement, it would spread in a circle. He would anticipate that and have Murdoch ring Stop just before it did.