The Jack the Ripper - Titanic connections

Well, here's a connection between Arthur Conan Doyle and the Titanic. A few years before the sinking Doyle and William Stead were very good friends, until some photographs of fairies taken by a couple of girls surfaced, and they became split over their authenticity (apparently Stead believed that they were genuine and Doyle didn't). The two of them reconciled a little less than a month before Stead boarded the Titanic, and they were planning to get together upon his return to England after the peace conference in New York. And of course, during the Jack the Ripper murders Arthur Conan Doyle was asked how Sherlock Holmes would solve the case. Interesting indeed.
 
The Cottingly Fairy business with little Elsie and her cousin Frances in 1917 is well -known indeed and was made into a film called Fairy Tale. Poor Sir Arthur must have been going a little fuzzy in his dotage and promised photos of the wee folk to The Strand magazine as late as 1923. But then, those old Edwardians were somewhat gullible in some areas-and a tad naive in others, bless 'em. One would have thought the war raging on would have put an end to foolish notions- but then again- maybe it was an escape from the reality.
 
Re "Fuller's Earth":

Well, there you have it ... caskets full er earth. (Right?) ;^)

"Ladies and gentlemen, the ship's barber shop also carries a generous supply of silver crucifixes and exquisite garlic accessories for even the most fashion-conscious."


Ah, the Faeries! Actually it was Doyle who was woefully taken in there, as Shelley implies. I wasn't aware of any Stead connection, but it would have to have been from beyond the grave at that point. (Of course, that would be just like Stead!) The somewhat fictionalized film version featured Harry Houdini as the skeptical antagonist.

The "Anomalies" web site has a pretty good historical overview of that tale, complete with reproductions of the photos (pretty hoaky stuff, actually) and the ultimate resolution:

http://anomalyinfo.com/articles/sa00017.shtml

I have to agree with your latter summation, Shelley. By 1917, with millions dead or maimed after three years of virtually stagnant conflict -- and no end in sight! -- I imagine a *few* people might have been eager to embrace *any* alternate reality.

Cheers,
John
 
Jack the ripper was really the Lock Ness monster.
........LOL!

(Havent you guys seen amazon women on the moon? if not, go rent it and watch the IS IT REAL, OR IS IT BULL$#!@ skit. youll understand then.)
 
Hi all!

Now THIS is a neat thread! (Seems a lot of us delve into a lot of the same things! - Other than Titanic.) I'm afraid I don't have "backed" facts here, just remembrances of what I've read, or heard. I seem to recall, that the Jack the Ripper "Diary" (I own a copy) was twice admitted as a fake by the fellow who found it, but that he also twice recanted the confession. However, I don't believe that it's in the realm of fantasy that someone could unearth some evidence, and then fabricate proof. Who knows? Maybe Maybrick DID do it. Also have a copy of "Prisoner 1167" by Jim Tully. Another fascinating book. And have loaned to a friend "The Bell Tower" (Robert Graysmith) - A fascinating, if somewhat abstruse book. It becomes almost incomprehensible in the latter half, but he details how Pastor Jack Gibson of Liverpool apparently committed the Jack the ripper crimes, AND killed two women in a similar fashion in San Fransisco in 1895... It also proposes he may have been responsible for the death of at least one other woman on the US East coast, right after the "Ripper" apparently quit working in London.
The really interesting upshot of this is, that, Gibson could be traced through immigration records. Along with what ship he used, which would give the verifying or denying facts regarding at least the East coast murder, as well as giving times, and locations for departures and arrivals. Interestingly, his whereabouts become uncertain around 1912...
Listed as died in Chicago, 1912, died in England 193?) Maybe he decided to come back to the US to take up his old profession and chose the wrong ship? (Titanic) Might make an interesting bit of research, provided he hadn't changed his name!

The Kelly fellow from "Prisoner 1167" would be equally traceable. As to Maybrick, it seems he's not implicated in any American "Ripper" crimes, though he WAS a cotton merchant with ties to the US.

Haven't done much digging on this one though, "Saucy Jack" creeps me out. I have to deal with him in VERY small doses.

An interesting thread indeed!...

Best regards!
John.
 
Shelley - The only thing I can come up with in linking the Titanic to Lizzie Borden is this: Lizzie Borden supposedly staved her parents' heads in in Fall River, Massachussetts in August 1892 and first class passenger Marjorie Newell Robb died there in June 1992. A tenuous link. Maybe their paths crossed at some point?

Cheers,

Boz
 
Iain, had not thought of that connection but maybe there's a chance! The heads by the way were removed after the funeral on August 6th, 1892 by Dr. Wood of Harvard Medical School and held for the trial in June 1893. They were finally buried beside the headless corpses, but only 3 feet deep and in the same box sometime after the trial. Marjorie grew up in Lexington but was often in Boston, as was Lizzie B who went to shop and to the theatre. Lizzie was nearly thirty when Marjorie was born. The house Liz got with the inheritance (Maplecroft) is on French Street just a short distance from Adams House on Highland Avenue where Marjorie lived out her last few years. Her son, Newell Robb was curator of the Marine Museum which features the Titanic model used in the Stanwyck film and at one time had a large THS collection. Lizzie sailed to Europe out of Boston in 1890 and I am trying to find out if she ever made any other voyages. She travelled Cunard. I should not be surprised if their paths crossed at some point- I very much doubt Marjorie would have had anything to do with Lizzie though- poor Lizzie was a social pariah!
 
Hello all-

Just a question regarding the usage of scene of the crime photograghy, when was this commonly done? I realize today it is part of investigation, but a hundred and then some years ago, was a camera always utilized? Of course, it could vary from country to country, police practices, availibilty, and, I think, the infamy of a crime. Any knowledge here someone would throw me?!

P.S.:The Mary Kelly photo I found by chance in a book years ago and not only turned my stomach, but also made me realise the horrible reason why Jack got his adjective, and why the crimes are still being discussed today.

Locking-my-doors-
Kris
 
Hi Kris...

Now everybody's going to know that I'm a 'Ripper' fan too! Curious how so many of us share similiar interests...!

Apart from the fact that it was a new technological 'toy' to be used whenever possible by 'the boys', it was also seen to be a remarkably effective way of recording the scene of a crime before it was (as it frequently was!) disturbed. There is another aspect which, to us today, is quite bizarre...

As late as the turn of the (19th/20th) century, it was commonly believed that a murder victim retained the image of their killer on their eyes! Murder victims were frequently photographed in close-up and their images enlarged and examined in great detail for an elusive 'mug-shot'....nuts...but true!

Even Fred Abberline gave credence to this practice. Of course, he never caught 'The Ripper' either!

I think I know the photo that you refer to (the one in Rumbelow's book?) and agree - it's not nice! But that's only one of at least two in existance. the other one's not nice either!

My P.S.?

...he might be currently fashionable - but I don't think John Maybrick had anything to do with the Whitechapel murders. I've always been convinced that his 'diary' was a "ho-hum clever" hoax. I tend to agree with Donald Rumbelow - I don't think we'll ever know who 'Jack' was.

And just to keep to topic...I don't recall having ever seen a real "Ripper-Titanic" connection...but it would be fascinating, wouldn't it!

Yours Truly.....sorry...!

Regards,

John M
 
Scotland Yard was on the cutting edge for the time. In 1888, the time of the Ripper, certainly photography was used as well as in America in 1892 on the Borden case-the tripod can be seen in the mirror of some of the case photos. I have always been amused that both cases paused to consider taking photos of the victims' eyes in the thinking that the last thing seen would be reflected in the retina. The concept of fingerprinting was known also but not applied, nor were there print record banks for comparison. England certainly had the lead. Scotland Yard has a great website- their Black Museum can tell you all about crime in the Gilded Age.
 
That is an intersting tidbit that back then they thought to take photos of the victims eyes would reveal anything. I have always been interested in True Crime.

The evidence that Patricia Cornwell has come up with of the identity of Jack the Ripper seems pretty convincing to me. She has spent a lot of her own personal money into trying to prove her theory.

I'll have to look up the Scotland Yard Website - sounds very interesting! - Beth
 
Forgot to mention Dr. Crippen and Jack the Ripper are at the very bottom of the page above - we have already discussed the wireless, Inspector Dew, the Montrose and Crippen before elsewhere on the board.
 

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