The Last of the Last How Masabumi Hosono's Night was forgotten

[monica e. hall]

Here you go, Deborah.
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/last-of-the-last.html
I didn't understand a lot of it for a while either, but anyway here's the article.
Monica

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I found the article by Margaret Mehl to be well-written and insightful.<<

So did I, Susan. What I found to be really intriguing was that by far the worst treatment that Mr. Hosono recieved was not at the hands of contemporary White AngloSaxon Protestants (Or Catholics for that matter,) but from his own people. I mean c'mon...getting fired from your job for the "crime" of surviving?!?!?!?!

 

[Margaret D. Mehl]

Oh dear: I didn't want to start off a load of accusations of racism!
I wrote the article because I couldn't help thinking it was ridiculous that Western Titanic fans could act as if Hosono's letter had just been newly discovered, when it had been printed in Japan in 1942 and again in 1980. I was also impatient with the references to "Japanese culture, " when so much of Hosono's experience parallelled that of Western survivors.
I suspect that Hosono was not so much suspended for surviving as for making Japan look bad in the eyes of the West - or so the Japanese thought.
Of course the Americans/English did not so much mistreat Hosono as ignore him. Interestingly, Hosono Masabumi's son Hideo, in his piece in Sunday Mainichi quoted in my article, stated that while studying in the US from 1928 he did some research in the library and found no evidence that Hosono had been condemned for surviving. Note that Hosono Hideo too cites a Western country as authority when he tries to restore his father's good name!
To put it all into context, I would be interested in knowing
- whether there are other examples of survivors whose career appears to have suffered after the disaster (though this is surely quite hard to prove - see the story about "Ismay''s" horse in Lord, The Night Lives On).
- whether there were other non-white passengers in 1st or 2nd class (if not, the assumption that Hosono was travelling 3rd class would seem understandable, and not only in terms of "racism").
Of course there are such things as cultural differences; the question is whether they are particularly in evidence in Hosono's story, and unless I find out more, my answer is, hardly at all.
Best wishes,
Margaret

 

[Susan Leighton]

Margaret,
Please know that you did not start off a load of accusations of racism. Your article was well received by members of this board. As often occurs in forums, the discussion got side-tracked by comments that many here thought were baseless.

I appreciate the in-depth research you did to complete the article and I was very enlightened by Hosana's story. Thank you for sharing it here at ET.

 

[monica e. hall]

Of course you didn't mean to begin a debate on racism, Margaret. 99.9% of us realize that perfectly well. It was just that, after Jan did begin it, we felt impelled to contribute, but you didn't start it. I, and I'm sure most other people, understood that the treatment he received in his own country was odd, in our eyes. And I think you are absolutely right that it was the concern over the image of Japan in Western eyes that mattered to the Japanese then. But if you are a nation trying to join the 20th century, this sort of strange (to us now) behaviour may result. However, as you point out, similar episodes occurred in the West.
Japan has had a very great struggle against its culture in the 20th century, in its efforts to become an economic force (most admirable in Western eyes...).
My 91-year old father was a Japanese POW and, although he can't be expected to try to understand their attitutdes in WW2, I am younger, so I have to try. And I know they were up against some considerable cultural problems -not that I am excusing anyone, merely trying to understand history. So, I found your article fascinating and I think it leads the way; we need more accounts of different cultural reactions to the disaster.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Oh dear: I didn't want to start off a load of accusations of racism!<<

I wouldn't worry about it. There's no way you can control how others react. About the only thing you can do is the research itself and publish your findings. What others do is entirely up to them. As Susan indicated, your article was very well recieved and I hope we can look forward to more in the future.

By the way, welcome aboard!

 

[Jan C. Nielsen]

This board is such a disappointment. The Guilded Age was an extremely racist society. Can anyone seriously deny that? It was a horrific time for people disenfranchised by economic status, race or ethnicity. There's no question about that. The problem is that this board membership is so naive, that it just wants to dust all the bad stuff under the rug, fantasize about heroes, adopt conservative, fundamentalist positions on issues surrounding the disaster, and endorse Rush Limbaugh's view that racism doesn't exist and that we were always perfect. Limbaugh is wrong. For that matter, Limbaugh wouldn't make a pimple on Hosono's posterior. His views have no place on this board, or anywhere for that matter. We still live in an extremely racist world, and racist society --- it was no better in 1912.

 

[Mike Anderson]

I hate to butt into a conversation that I don't belong in, but I'd like to throw in my two cents.

I'm not a big poster here, but I've lurked around the boards for years. With the exception of the occasional off-kilter posting, the threads here reflect just how accomodating the members here are. When the relatively uninformed (me included) have a valid question, we receive a more than gracious answer. The discussions here are mature, enlightening, and a joy to read. While I've noted more than a few tempers flare in heated debates, I've yet to see (with the exception of this thread) a callow, damnning attack on a group at large. The fact that a thread for the Masabumi Hosono article was used to express a thoroughly prejudiced opinion is beyond ironic; it's absurd. To, on one hand, make a valid observation on racism and then to imply a large and varied group is racist is incredible to me.

On a side note, how does Limbaugh have any relevence to this discussion? How is that members here are "naive"? How is stating that the Gilded Age was racist proving anything? Once again you're attacking an entire group with ridiculous lables.

This board is such a disappointment. The Guilded Age was an extremely racist society. Can anyone seriously deny that? It was a horrific time for people disenfranchised by economic status, race or ethnicity. There's no question about that. The problem is that this board membership is so naive, that it just wants to dust all the bad stuff under the rug, fantasize about heroes, adopt conservative, fundamentalist positions on issues surrounding the disaster, and endorse Rush Limbaugh's view that racism doesn't exist and that we were always perfect. Limbaugh is wrong. For that matter, Limbaugh wouldn't make a pimple on Hosono's posterior. His views have no place on this board, or anywhere for that matter. We still live in an extremely racist world, and racist society --- it was no better in 1912.

Seems like a string of non-sequiturs to me.

Anyway, I just want to thank the very tolerant members here for making this board such a pleasure to read.

 

[Colleen Collier]

I will echo these very same words. "His views have no place on this board, or anywhere for that matter."
Let's all stand and wave... Ta-Ta Cutie. Don't let the door slam you on the posterior!

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Oh oh. Looks like someone missed their nap and ritalin dose today.

 

[Robert W. Collier]

Dittos Phil, Mike and Colleen.

 

[Eric Sauder]

"This board is such a disappointment."

Jan, if you don't like it, leave. The conservative boogey-man isn't keeping you here against your will.

So much more I could say, but what's the point? Most liberals don't want to listen to the ideas of someone who doesn't agree with them. For many liberals, diversity is a wonderful thing as long as you are just like them. If you're not, watch out!

Eric Sauder

 

[Randy Bryan Bigham]

Thanks to Mike Anderson for his very thoughtful defense of ET and of its members.

Mike wrote: "On a side note, how does Limbaugh have any relevence to this discussion?"

It has none whatever. It's a very low and cheap, though safely anonymous, attack on a respected board member and friend to many in the Titanic community. It is also a way to broad brush others on the board and it's detestable.

Jan, if that's his real name (he's gone through several while haunting this board with his drivel and innuendo), has become the saddest old wreck of a whine bag, bar none. And it's a shame as the man is otherwise brilliant and would, if he weren't bonkers on this racism kick, be able to contribute a great deal that is worthy and useful as far as his own original research.

Jan/Joe/Cutie/Whoever-he-is wrote: "The problem is that this board membership is so naive, that it just wants to dust all the bad stuff under the rug, fantasize about heroes, adopt conservative, fundamentalist positions on issues surrounding the disaster..."

Same tired old unsubstantiated, ridiculous, stupid rhetoric. The only naivete is Jan's and any fantasizing going on is going on in his warped head. And all this ranting about fundamentalists and conservatives taking over ET is a huge joke.

He further wrote: "We still live in an extremely racist world, and racist society --- it was no better in 1912..."

Who the heck ever denied that? And who here has ever pretended to cover up such facts? So why are we being lashed out at and held to blame?

My advice to Jan: Get a grip or get lost.

Randy

 

[Inger Sheil]

Did you figure the dust had settled, Jan, and it was safe to come back repeating the same tired mantra, misrepresenting and attacking the members of this board? Your broad (mis)characterisation of the socio-political spectrum of posters here demonstrates your own prejudices. They run the gamult, from conservative to liberal and every shade in between. And yet, somehow, the majority manage to engage in a meaningful discourse.

This board is such a disappointment. The Guilded Age was an extremely racist society. Can anyone seriously deny that?

What an absolute misrepresentation of what has been discussed on this board and the views of many of its members. By contemporary standards, yes - racism could be found in abundance. And not just in Western Society, either - you'd find that in the East there were unsavoury attitudes and stereotypes about other races held as well.

And just a word to Mike Anderson - Mike, given the calibre of your post, I wish you would post more often! You've hit the nail bang on the head.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>This board is such a disappointment.<<

Then why do you hang around here???

>>The Guilded Age was an extremely racist society. Can anyone seriously deny that?<<

And pontificating on that acheives what? For better and for worse, they were what they were. That doesn't make any of it right, but that doesn't take away from what they acheived either. A lot of the accomplishments made by civil rights movements of every patch have this period as their foundation. Like woman's suffrage, labour unions, etc. Would you wipe the slate clean of what they acheived because of the racism all pervasive in those times?

>>The problem is that this board membership is so naive, that it just wants to dust all the bad stuff under the rug, fantasize about heroes, adopt conservative, fundamentalist positions on issues surrounding the disaster, and endorse Rush Limbaugh's view that racism doesn't exist and that we were always perfect.<<

As Rose Dewitless Bucolic would say: "HORSEHOCKLEY!!!!!"

I don't see a lot of people putting on rose coloured glasses about this period of time, and the sheer diversity of opinion expressed on a veriety of issues on this forum absolutely put the lie to the notion of any one political view predominating on this forum. If you beleive otherwise, then you might want to go HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE.

Read through all of that in order and then try and tell me that everybody toes a particular party line when the sheer diversity of opinion indicates the reverse.

While you're at it, you might want to check out the discussions on historical and technical issues which take place on this board. In case it escaped your notice, they are anything but hidebound and some in fact are breaking new ground every day.

>>For that matter, Limbaugh wouldn't make a pimple on Hosono's posterior. His views have no place on this board, or anywhere for that matter.<<

While I would agree that Rush Limbaugh's views on modern day politics have no place on this board, I would also point out that the views on modern day politics of his counterparts on the opposite side have no place on this board either. Anywhere else however, he has the same rights to free speech under the First Amendment as anyone else, as do the views of his counterparts on the other side.

If you have a problem with that, then I submit that it's just that: Your problem. Don't try to make it ours.

Inger said: "And just a word to Mike Anderson - Mike, given the calibre of your post, I wish you would post more often! You've hit the nail bang on the head."

He sure did. Very well put, Mike.