The wreck

Hi.

I am interested in seeing photos from the Lusitaniawreck. I have only seen the Ken Marshallpainting. Are there any website where I can find photos from the wreck.

Has anyone more than Bob Ballard explored the wreck? When was the latest exhibition to the wreck.
 
Hi Mikael:

I don't think we've talked before. I am Bill Sauder and was with Ballard on his mission to Lusitania and did much of the wreck analysis with Eric Sauder that Ken Marschall's paintings are based on.

In answer to your questions, the photos and videos taken at Lusitania have never been publicly released, aside from the book "Exploring the Lusitania" and a National Geographic documentary. The chance of future release of this material is slim to none. The reason is that the photos do not show much that is identifiable to the average reader.

If it is any consolation, the best of the photos are in the Ballard book I mentioned. Lusitania is in a very advanced state of decay, far worse than the stern section of Titanic. The entire site looks like a plane crash site, the wreck is that torn up.

There have been a few privately sponsored dives to the Lusitania. Oceaneering went to her in the mid 1980s to recover nonexistent gold, and some private divers in the 90s but diving is becoming more difficult due to the change in the legal climate and the need for (Irish) government permission and clearance from the man claiming ownership of the wreck.

Bill Sauder
 
Sorry to say that everyone who has visited the wreck is rather secretive with their wreck photos. In Ballard's case it's understandable because he doesn't own the rights to them. They are copyrighted and owned by the National Geographic Society, and he can't use them without permission, which I understand is difficult (not to mention expensive) to obtain.

In the case of others who have visited the wreck, I think their hesitation comes from the questionable ownership of the wreck itself. It's just easier not to make their photos public than to risk the possibility of a lawsuit (whether valid or not). However, I was recently in touch with a gentleman who has dived the wreck for the last few years using scuba, and I'm hoping that he will let me use some of his wreck photos on a web site I'm working on.

As far as I know, the only Lusitania wreck photo on the web is used to illustrate my article at

http://home.flash.net/~sparks12/titanic.html

There were a number of expeditions in the 1990s aside from Ballard's, and they were all dives using scuba, not high-tech equipment. And the photos and video that were brought back by the free divers are exceptional in that I learned more about the wreck and how it deteriorated from the close-up photos they took than I did from the Ballard photos.

The last expedition to Lusitania was last summer sometime although I'm not sure of the exact date.

Eric Sauder
 
Eric,

Thanks for the link. i enjoyed seeing your work online having read aprint version a wee while back in the Commutator (a friend of mine here is a THS member). I remember you had two ILN photos of the ship in disguise and being painted, funnel tops that is, and was surprised by their abscence.

As to the wreck photo it is amazing you could find anything in that mess. It's worse than my place on a bad day.
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Martin
 
Not so surprising when you consider that for a time, the Royal Navy was using the wreck as a practice target for anti-submarine warfare training.

Get depth charges dropped on your head for several years streight and you might not look so good either!
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Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Thank you for your posting Bill. Interesting to hear from someone who has been to the wreck. Yesterday I saw a documentary about Lusitania which showed some footage of the wreck. It's sad that the Royal Navy has destroyed the wreck.

Thank you for sharing your article Eric. It is was interesting to read about the last footage. I also had never seen the Ken Marshall painting of Lusitania in the harbour before.

How deep lies the Lusitania? Is it possible to dive there using scuba or is it like on the Britannic that you can only be there a couple of minutes.
 
Glad to help. I hope anyone reading that article noticed that this last expedition described used a lot of tech diving equipment. I'm sure Inger Sheil could tell us more about that, but it should serve as an cautionary note that the Lucy is not the sort of thing to be attempted by inexperienced divers who don't know what they're doing.

Nitrogen narcosis is a lousy way to die!

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Regarding depth charge damage:

1) The RN can't be blamed for dropping depth charges. In W.W.II, a common tactic was for German U Boats to lie in wait beside shipwrecks since it was impossible to distinguish between the metal of the wreck and the metal in the sub. Therefore, the policy was to drop on any metallic objects underwater.

2) The damage contributed to the wreck by the depth charges was not a severe as might be imagined. A ship on the surface or with a pressurized hull is susceptible because the explosion creates a small hole that is ripped open by the inrush of water. In the case of submerged objects, the pressure on both sides of the plate is equal and the damage is much, much smaller.

There are about 4 identifiable depth charge holes in the Lusitania's hull, all quite small, perhaps no more than 10 feet across, typically with a metal "tang" pushed into the void. (Think of a soup can with the lit cut 90% off and then pushed into the can.)

So far as I have been able to determine, most of the damage to the wreck was incurred by:

1) Striking the sea bed in decent

2) The unnatural position of the hull (on her side) causing considerable torsion at the unsupported bow and stern

3) Corrosion and wasting of metal prompted by quick running currants in the area. (Collapse of the superstructure. All metal originally less that 1/4" thick is completely gone. That means bulkheads and deckhouses no longer exist)

4) Corrosion prompted by union of dissimilar metals (all the portholes are gone. The brass/steel union was the focus of corrosion and the rivets simply rusted away and dropped the frames into the wreck.)

5.There is also some evidence of "Kiting" in which large slabs of detached superstructure have been lifted as a body by currants and rotated or moved considerable distances, as in the case of the "Laurentic."


Bill Sauder
 
Bill, has anyone given any thought as to what to do about those depth charges? The results of having one of those things go off by accident with divers in the water would be...unfortunate.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
I would be particularly interested in hearing more about #5 there Bill. I have heard of it but never really explored it. So are you saying it is possible that pieces of the superstructure could exist but away from the wreck?? Maybe not on Lucy but is that the general jist of "Kitiing"??

Erik
 
Mike:

So far as I know, all the divers simply keep clear of them. They look like wine bottles with very long necks and stand out.

Erik:

"Kiting" is my own term for instances in which the superstructure of a wreck becomes detached from the main body and is moved as a unit to a new location on the sea bed by the movement of water.

It first came to my notice in the book "Marine Salvage" by Joseph Gores. The following is a summary taken from his book.

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The White Star Liner Laurentic (15,000 tons) struck a mine and sank in 130 feet of water off the North coast of Ireland in January 917 with 3211 ingots of gold bound for the United States to pay for the war effort. Salvage operations were started immediately.

Her original attitude on the sea bed put her at a 60 degree heel which meant her upper works were only 60 feet below the surface.

"This was unfortunate because the wreck was exposed to the full sweep of northern gales as well as high waves raised by southerlies. Divers on the deck of Laurentic were swept ruthlessly about by the great horizontal surges of the surface waves." (Slightly paraphrased from the original text)

Although at an angle, the internal situation within the wreck allowed access to the specie room and recovery of the gold was swift until suspended by heavy weather.

Storms prevented diving for a week and upon their return the divers found the Laurentic had "folded up like an accordion." The shell door giving access to the specie room corridor had fallen from 62 feet below water to 103. The internal space within the hull at that point had gone from 8 feet to 18 inches.

Work then proceeded by cutting away the hull to expose the entire section of the hull in the area of the specie room. When the hull collapsed, the gold had fallen through the cracks and was now scattered in a massive debris field.

In winter of 1920, another set of storms "neatly dropped the two massive superstructures into the work area in the center of the ship."

When operations were concluded in 1924, all but 25 of the ships original 3211 gold bars had been recovered.

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As far as the Lusitania is concerned, when I did a telemetry plot of landmarks seen in the videos, it was obvious that certain parts of the superstructure, notably the Second Class Deck House must have come away from the wreck in a body and was deposited in a horizontal, upright position some yards away from the corresponding attachment points on the hull.

There are also a few anomalies forward on boat deck, port side, abreast the No. 1 funnel. For example, whole sections of cabins in that area have been lifted as a body and rotated 180 degrees around so that the forward edge of the section is now facing aft.

Sadly, nobody was interested in the research Eric, Ken, and I were doing, which is why you are all hearing about it here in this forum for the first time. The Lusitania Wreck has a fascinating story to tell, I really hope that someday it can be gone into in detail.

Bill Sauder
 
Me too,

I am fasicnated by this. I hope that sometime you will be able to write a paper and publish it hear on ET.

Thanks again for the great info Bill.

Erik
 
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