Titanic's hull

Tom,
Enjoyed your post regarding the hull thickness and the gum wrapper, goes to show that even though these were huge vessels, in the scheme of things they did very well to hold up to the everyday stresses we placed on them.

Robert,
For your "first one" I think you have raised some really good points probably worthy of their own threads. I had a quick look around the topics on this site and could not find an answer to your questions - nor could I remember seeing any posts regarding the plating arrangement or how you make 2 or more overlapping steel plates watertight. I guess I was just taking it for granted that if you stick enough rivets through these plates and let the cooling of the rivets pull the plates even tighter that you will hold back the water, although I think that no ship is ever really watertight and relies on ite bilge pump system to offload any invading water...not an expert just my landlubber opinion...
 
Hi Robert Hauser,

I may be able to help you but purely from what I've seen and experienced and from a practical standpoint.
British built ships were always noticeable in my day by their overlapping riveted plates and German ships especially, by that ''bulge'' you were talking about.
In the ship yards and dry docks I've visited, bottom plates especially were treated with a mixture of boiled oil and red lead. We always used this concoction on all bare metal up on deck after chipping and scraping bulkheads etc.
Today I suppose things are much different but I would hazard a guess that something similar took place in Titanic's day.
The hot rivets being hammered in just inches apart would have had quite a sealing effect I would imagine, along with plenty of primer and boot topping being slapped on after the exercise. However, all ships leak!

The heavy riveting seen on the superstructures of huge ships is there for the stresses and strains being caused when ships endure heavy weather conditions. The higher you go on the upper works of a pitching liner, the greater the movement. This can also be easily seen by the fore stays and back stays slackening and tightening quite visibly in those conditions.
On the boat decks of Royal Mail ships and Union Castle liners and many others, the ship moves between it's expansion plates quite considerably, a few inches in fact, when pitching in heavy seas.
Some passengers would be quite alarmed to see the ship moving in this way but we would assure them that all they have to do is make sure they're on the right half when she breaks in two!
Seriously though, seaman have a saying that '' when she surges,groans, creaks and squeaks,then she's a good 'un!''
The above applies to riveted ships.
I mention expansion plates in the Atlantic Daily Bulletin if they decide to publish the article.

I hope this is of some help to your question,

All the best,
David
 
Riveted ships were "caulked," although not quite the way of old wooden vessels. Sometimes bituminous materials were placed in the faying surfaces between the plates. This worked well until those materials dried and cracked. A later technique was to splay out the exposed edges of the top plate against the underlying plate. This was done with a cold chisel and hammer or latter an air tool. A watertight fit could be obtained in this manner.

There are many ways of plating. Seams run horizontal. A line of horizontal plating is known as a "strake." Strakes were usually overlapped on an in-and-out basis. That is alternating strakes would appear to be "on top" from the outside. There were other plating schemes, but in-an-out was the easiest for the yard.

Butts are the vertical joints between plates. These can be made in a variety of ways, just like seams. One common way is to put a "butt plate" on the inside. This is a smaller piece that covers the butt and to which both adjoining outer plates are joined. Above the waterline the butt plates were sometimes placed on the outside of the hull to provide a smoother interior.

Shell plates (the big exterior plates) could also be formed with a sort of recess to accept an overlapping plate. This was more expensive and time consuming.

A major problem in plating a ship was to make sure the butts were staggered. That is, one butt joint could not be in a vertical line with the joints on the plates above and below. In fact, you wanted several strakes between aligned butt joints. So, great care was used in calculating the size of plates to avoid "overlapping butts." (I can hear the chuckles now.)

The big problem with plating a ship was getting the plates to lie flat against the underlying framework. As near to 100% contact between vertical frame and plate as possible was desired. In-and-out plating caused gaps the thickness of the plate at the "out" strakes. American yards often inserted spacer pieces as needed. British yards more often "joggled" the frames. That is, they made the frames shaped to fit the in-and-out plating. This was more expensive and time-consuming, but joggled ships were stronger.

Techniques used to plate ships varied not only from yard to yard, but also from country to country. As David H. points out, it was often possible to tell the country of origin of a ship by the way its plates were put together.

The working of a ship in a seaway as David H. so vividly described caused rivets to loosen and begin "weeping." (water came through) In Titanic's day (before welding) these rivets were removed and new ones fitted. Later, it was common to run a bead of weld around the head to seal this sort of minor leak.

Steel shipbuilding in Titanic's time was really an extension of wooden ship construction. That is, frames were set up just as in days of yore and strakes put hung to form the hull. The result was a very tightly woven basket. Like a basket, the individual pieces (reeds in the basket, plates and frames in the ship) remained discreet. Only during WW-II did welding begin to change things. Today's welded ships are best thought of as one-piece hulls.

What has been overlooked even by modern scientific analysis of Titanic's accident is that the rivets in the seams were not the only fasteners which held the plates together. Each plate was also riveted to the underlying frames. Thus, if a seam rivet was knocked loose, the plate remained in poisition and the seam might not open at all. I can show proof of this on an existing 1911 hull. The strength and watertightness of a riveted hull comes from more than just the butts and seams. It is the totality of the construction--just like a well-made basket.

One-piece containers break under strain while baskets can bend and "give." Well into living memory many sailors avoided welded ships in favor of riveted hulls for this reason. The idea was that the riveted hull would be more able to hold together because of the nature of its construction. And, there was some truth to this. Many early welded ships broke apart at sea. This was the case of many Liberty ships during WW-II.

Back to the butt joints for a final note. On Titanic they were arranged so that any vertical edges faced aft. This was thought to provide a "smoother" surface. Only later with the development of aerodynamics was it discovered that this method actually created "burbles" in the water flowing past the hull. These burbles rrobbed speed and increased fuel consumption. It was learned that butt seams should be reversed. Unfortunately, by then welding had become the way of shipbuilding.

--David G. Brown
 
Yes, quite interesting detail and as mentioned, my information comes from observing repairs in shipyard slipways and dry docks in Southampton.
When red lead and boiled oil ''goes off'' it appears like a thick plastic skin. When this is between riveted plates, it makes a good seal. I've seen new plates set up in dry dock for ships being altered for stabilisers and insurance jobs and this appeared to be the procedure.
Perhaps not being a shipwright or builder, I may have been missing something, however an informative post and thank you for that.

All the best,
David
 
Here's what I have been able to learn about the practices employed to form the plate connections on the Olympic-class ships, and on other large riveted steel ships built by H&W. While in smaller vessels, the materials used in the construction of the hull were light enough to permit the joggling of the frames to make a solid connection between all surfaces, with ships the size of the Titanic this wasn't found to be practical. The "In" strakes were riveted directly to the frames while spaces remaining between the "Out" strakes and the frames were filled by steel strips, called "liners", having the same thickness as the adjacent "In" strake.

In the "clinker" style shell plating used between the keel and the turn of the bilge, H&W got around having to use tapered liners by riveting the plates to angle-bar frames of relatively thin section that had been machine-joggled prior to being attached to the tank floors. (For those unfamiliar with the term, the tank "floors" are the transverse, vertical deep frames of the double bottom.)

H&W formed the corners of their butt laps in the following manner. Where the lands of the "Out" strakes passed over the raised butt lap of the adjacent "In" strakes, the corners of the raised edge of the butt under the landing were planed off in a manner creating a tapered scarf, allowing the outside strakes to bear tightly on the inside strakes. The inward-protruding edges of the butt laps of the outer strakes were finished in the same manner, only with the scarfs being planed into the corners of the inboard forward edge of each plate. Without these scarfs, a tapered aperture would have remained, each one requiring small tapered pieces of packing iron to fill them. Some builders employed the latter method rather than incur the penalty in both increased cost and time that came with scarfing the corners of all of the butt laps. Tapered packings tended to produce a maintenance and repair nightmare for the owner down the road, in the form of premature failure of seams from the accelerated corrosion experienced in the thinner edge of the packing piece.

Where the plating was of thinner section, such as with the deck plates, joggling of the plate seams was adopted instead of plating on the "in-and-out" or "clinker" systems. In the areas above B-deck where the scantlings were much lighter in general, joggling of the vertical frames for the deckhouses of the superstructure was employed.

Best regards,
Scott Andrews
 
Patrik,
I concur with James - the hull plating on Titanic was one inch, where the upper superstructure plating was significantly thinner. The main plates themselves were 30 ft. long by 6 feet high. I am locating the primary source that confirms the exterior upper deck plating as being 1/4 inch. The Shipbuilder Olympic-class edition lists the keel plating at 1 1/4 inch thick.

It was surmised a few years ago that 20-25% of the steel thickness on Titanic had been consumed. This would certainly concur with the fact that many portions of the upper superstructure now has holes in its plating - the deck houses and boat deck have holes opening up everywhere. 25% of 1 inch is 1/4 inch, so it should come at no surprise that the images from the 2001 Cameron expedition show much structural degradation in these areas.

Shane, I am not sure from where you derived your numbers. Clarify?
 
The numbers were from research done by The Minerals, Metals & Materials Society, Dan. There was also help from RMS Titanic Inc, Laclede Steel Company,and D. Murphy of the School of Mines and Metallurgy shop at the University of Missouri-Rolla.
All Ahead Full!
 
Yes, but is that based on H&W specs or is that steel they retrieved on expedition. The Q&A above is regarding 1912 thicknesses, not post-retrieval retrieval where years of consumption.
1.875 cm is about 3/4 inch thick and 1.25 cm is only 1/2 inch. I can't find specs in the H&W research that gives these figures. I guess I am confused....
 
I think my facts may be a little blurred, and if so, I apologise. Let me rewind and try to correct myself. (Scanning back over stuff, I found new things!)
The hull plating of the Titanic was one inch thick at midship, the keel being more heavier. The bow and stern had .6 of an inch plating and the spacing of the frames were much more reduced at the fore and aft.
Hopefully this helps and I apologize for any garbled information. I need to be a little more accurate!
Sorry about the confusion,
Shane N. Worthy
All Ahead Full!
 
How was the keel bar actually forged? I read in Tom MacKluskie's ( oft notoriusly inacurate book) that they first laid down a line of flat iron keel plates, and place the keel bar(3inches thick,according to him) edgewise and perpendicular to the keel plates beneath. Since it obviously was not possible to forge an 850foot piece of 3inch steel, I'm assuming these sections of keel bar had to be joined at various intervals. I saw one close up picture of the Keel, and it seemed to be subdivided by raised flanges about every yard. Does anyone know how it was all connected it into 1/6 mile metal slab? Any help would be appreciated, sincerly Rob Hauser.
 
>>Does anyone know how it was all connected it into 1/6 mile metal slab? Any help would be appreciated, sincerly Rob Hauser.<<

Very simply, the sections were rivited together.
 
Yeah, but how? Where would the connection points be? I guesse I'm not sure if it was of uniform construction the whole lenght. I saw one shot, looking up, where it appeared to be a solid bar with the keel plate and keelson forming an I-beam, but in other more distant pictures, it looks perforated by lighting holes. In those, it really the majority of all the pictures from a distance Ive seen, it looks like an I-beam with oval shaped holes running down its lenght. Were there flanges or something? If so, they seem very subtle.
 
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