Arun Vajpey
Member
Titanic's Stern did implode, its why she's in she's in super bad condition. I will explain later.So this one is bugging me. A lot of people seem to think the stern of the Titanic imploded after being dragged down by the bow (thanks James Cameron, Titanic expert extraordinaire!), but it is just physically impossible!:
An underwater implosion occurs when a structure designed to withstand water pressure (ie: a pressure vessel) catastrophically fails. This kind of thing is usually associated with a submarine exceeding its crush depth, but the Titanic was not a submarine!
Here's a thought experiment (or a real one, if you choose). Take a glass tumbler and turn it upside down. Now immerse it into a bath of water open-end first. As the tumbler enters the water, the air inside the tumbler gets slowly compressed by the increasing water pressure, taking on less volume and allowing more water to enter the tumbler. The deeper you push the tumbler, the more the air gets compressed and the more water will enter.
The 'problem' is, it will never implode. It won't implode because the pressure inside the tumbler is equal to the pressure outside; the air inside is continually compressed (increasing its pressure) to "make room" for more water, but the air and the water are always at the same pressure.
Now, if you were to completely seal the open end of the tumbler, you would have a different story. Water would not be allowed to enter, so the pressure inside the tumbler would remain static whilst the pressure outside the tumbler increases as a function of depth. Eventually, the the pressure differential would exceed the strength of the glass walls and the tumbler would fail catastrophically (implosion).
But, again, the Titanic was not a submarine, nor was it made of glass! Even if there were trapped air pockets, the hull of the Titanic was not a pressure vessel! Even assuming the non-damaged sections of the hull were air-tight and contained trapped air pockets, the steel would deform long before any internal pressure differential could build up. She was a strong ship, but she was not designed to submerge.
Just wanted to get that one off my chest! Thank you for humoring me.
You are right, Darren. Unfortunately. many folks treat movies like encyclopedias of fact with Documentarys coming a close second. We all forget that those who procuce them do so to make money and we watch their efforts to be entertained. Unfortunately, truth takes a back seat and sensation does all the driving. Worst of all. individual reputations can be stained for all time.So this one is bugging me. A lot of people seem to think the stern of the Titanic imploded after being dragged down by the bow (thanks James Cameron, Titanic expert extraordinaire!), but it is just physically impossible!:
An underwater implosion occurs when a structure designed to withstand water pressure (ie: a pressure vessel) catastrophically fails. This kind of thing is usually associated with a submarine exceeding its crush depth, but the Titanic was not a submarine!
Here's a thought experiment (or a real one, if you choose). Take a glass tumbler and turn it upside down. Now immerse it into a bath of water open-end first. As the tumbler enters the water, the air inside the tumbler gets slowly compressed by the increasing water pressure, taking on less volume and allowing more water to enter the tumbler. The deeper you push the tumbler, the more the air gets compressed and the more water will enter.
The 'problem' is, it will never implode. It won't implode because the pressure inside the tumbler is equal to the pressure outside; the air inside is continually compressed (increasing its pressure) to "make room" for more water, but the air and the water are always at the same pressure.
Now, if you were to completely seal the open end of the tumbler, you would have a different story. Water would not be allowed to enter, so the pressure inside the tumbler would remain static whilst the pressure outside the tumbler increases as a function of depth. Eventually, the the pressure differential would exceed the strength of the glass walls and the tumbler would fail catastrophically (implosion).
But, again, the Titanic was not a submarine, nor was it made of glass! Even if there were trapped air pockets, the hull of the Titanic was not a pressure vessel! Even assuming the non-damaged sections of the hull were air-tight and contained trapped air pockets, the steel would deform long before any internal pressure differential could build up. She was a strong ship, but she was not designed to submerge.
Just wanted to get that one off my chest! Thank you for humoring me.
You are right, Darren. Unfortunately. many folks treat movies like encyclopedias of fact with Documentarys coming a close second. We all forget that those who procuce them do so to make money and we watch their efforts to be entertained. Unfortunately, truth takes a back seat and sensation does all the driving. Worst of all. individual reputations can be stained for all time.
I got that one off my chest.
Excellent post, Darren. - I wish I had written that.Thanks, Jim.
It was re-watching James Cameron's 'The Final Word' which made me want to vent. I just find it frustrating that some people can give themselves a global platform to espouse their 'gut feeling' ideas which even a basic understanding of the physics involved can call into question (if not outright disprove) and, in the meantime, well-researched evidence-based ideas such as the work done by the late Roy Mengot - and many contributors to these boards - get lost in the noise.
I wish people like Cameron, who have such a reach, would consider the impact of their reach and think twice before claiming something as fact. Even a simple throw-away line such as 'Titanic was called the ship of dreams' can pollute the already-overflowing disinformation pool. Now it is a part of popular culture and, ergo, fact.
...Though at least it has inspired me for a new a signature line! Would you believe I spent most of the day today researching if there were any prior-1997 references to 'ship of dreams'? I wish I had better things to do with my time than trying to prove a negative. Damn you, COVID-19!
Titanic’s Stern did implode. The air that was trapped within her hull built pressure. Think of when you’re washing the dishes, and you flip a cup of bowl down and press it on the bottom of the sink. There’s an air pocket!Excellent post, Darren. - I wish I had written that.
I have something on the 'deawing board' which, if I ever finish it, will, I hope, go a long way to satisfying a need for the plain truth. At least that one thing I can thank Covid for...giving me something to do during this endless lockdown.
Hello Cam.Titanic’s Stern did implode. The air that was trapped within her hull built pressure. Think of when you’re washing the dishes, and you flip a cup of bowl down and press it on the bottom of the sink. There’s an air pocket!
See, the deeper you go, the more pressure that air pocket is subjected to. Think of how much pressure the Stern’s remaining air pockets had to deal with, within the first 300-400 feet. Boom! The subsequent implosions blew out Walls and supports, explaining why when the Stern landed, everything pancaked. And, there’s huge mounts of Hull, and superstructure that’s missing. Basically, when the Stern landed and broke her back, the job was finished.
how else do you explain the Stern’s appearance? The Bow retained its entire structure!
You have a point, but not the lower decks, like cabins and things. How would the Propeller shaft vent it’s air? Or the Third Class cabins? The Bow was able to force the air out, but not the Stern. Where would the air go once the Stern went under? The air had nowhere to go. Thus, she imploded, probably within 400 feet.Hello Cam.
When a ship sinks, air trapped in compartments is at sea level pressure. As the ship sinks in salt water, the sea water pressure increases by 64 lbs./ cu ft. for ever foot it sinks. very soon, the outside pressure pushes every last vestige of surface air out of the ship. That is what saved Lightoller and Colonel Gracie.
When all the air was pushed out and replaced by sea water, then the pressure outside and inside equalised. Consequently, there was no differential of pressure in any compartment. Not even a tank since all tanks would be ventilated.
As for the damage you see? Think of a multi-story car park falling from the sky onto the dessert...what do you think would happen? Also, what do you think caused the side-way displacement of the shell plating in the forward section of the wreck?
Think "telescope"
Cam.You have a point, but not the lower decks, like cabins and things. How would the Propeller shaft vent it’s air? Or the Third Class cabins? The Bow was able to force the air out, but not the Stern. Where would the air go once the Stern went under? The air had nowhere to go. Thus, she imploded, probably within 400 feet.
had the Stern not imploded, it probably wouldn’t have been forced into a helicopter spin, and slam 40 miles an hour into the sea bed.
You got me there, Jim. Guess we’ve arrived at that point where we’ll disagreeCam.
Every ship's cabin had ventilators of some kind. Otherwise, passengers would have suffocated like those poor unfortunates who were recently locked in a shipping container. Additionally, cabin doors and ally-way doors would also have been left open when the occupants went up on deck.
At the moment of impact with the sea bed. water within compartment would try to displace. However, unlike air, it could not displace the water out side, so the vertical structures such as side frames, shell plating would simply buckle downward and outward. The internal compartmental framing which would have been light and part wood part steel would also have buckled
The propeller shafts were solid and mounted within stern tubes which would have had little or no air in them. Any air which had been in them would have long since been pushed out through the shaft bearings by sea water. Incidentally, sea water acting on lignum vitae bearings was used to lubricate the stern tubes.
If the ship did not implode, where did the air go? Air cannot simply vanish and be replaced with water.But, again, the Titanic was not a submarine, nor was it made of glass! Even if there were trapped air pockets, the hull of the Titanic was not a pressure vessel! Even assuming the non-damaged sections of the hull were air-tight and contained trapped air pockets, the steel would deform long before any internal pressure differential could build up. She was a strong ship, but she was not designed to submerge.
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