Titanic's stern did not implode.

[DarrenC]

If the ship did not implode, where did the air go? Air cannot simply vanish and be replaced with water.

Hello Cam,

The air doesn't need to vanish. Unlike water, air is compressible. Take an inflated balloon and put it in water. You could take it all the way down to the Titanic and it would not implode. Instead, the air inside would be gradually compressed, giving the impression that the balloon is deflating even though no air is escaping., Eventually the air would reach 25,000psi at the ocean floor, and would happily sit there as the outside water pressure is also 25,000psi.

I the most extreme (and unlikely) situation, if any air was dragged down with the stern with no possible escape route, it could still be there today at 25,000psi.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Hello Cam,

The air doesn't need to vanish. Unlike water, air is compressible. Take an inflated balloon and put it in water. You could take it all the way down to the Titanic and it would not implode. Instead, the air inside would be gradually compressed, giving the impression that the balloon is deflating even though no air is escaping., Eventually the air would reach 25,000psi at the ocean floor, and would happily sit there as the outside water pressure is also 25,000psi.

I the most extreme (and unlikely) situation, if any air was dragged down with the stern with no possible escape route, it could still be there today at 25,000psi.

Hi Darren!

Excellent analogy. However, considering the pressure at which Titanic lies at, I don't think its possible for our friend the balloon. Air is compressible, but its the amount of air that was trapped within her hull that's the issue. When Titanic broke in two, the double bottom was still partially connected. That dragged the Stern unwillingly down, like if you tried to push a balloon beneath the water. it's buoyant, so it does not go without a fight. Like I told Jim, survivors did indeed hear booms coming from the Stern moments after she disappeared.

I am not so sure about that comment of the air being there today.

 

[Mike Bull2019]

Thanks, Jim.

It was re-watching James Cameron's 'The Final Word' which made me want to vent. I just find it frustrating that some people can give themselves a global platform to espouse their 'gut feeling' ideas which even a basic understanding of the physics involved can call into question (if not outright disprove) and, in the meantime, well-researched evidence-based ideas such as the work done by the late Roy Mengot - and many contributors to these boards - get lost in the noise.

I wish people like Cameron, who have such a reach, would consider the impact of their reach and think twice before claiming something as fact. Even a simple throw-away line such as 'Titanic was called the ship of dreams' can pollute the already-overflowing disinformation pool. Now it is a part of popular culture and, ergo, fact.

Yes- along with disprovable comments such as the staircase all leaving the ship through the dome.

I am still of the mind the Stern imploded! The Bow, was full of water. Barely anything tore off, excluding the Lifeboat Davits and Vents. But yet, the Stern is missing a 70 foot section. Lifeboat davits and after davits, gone. The Poop Deck is folded back, a result of the implosions loosening rivets, “like a deck of cards caught in the wind”

and, the Survivors reported hearing booms, after the Stern left the surface. It’s scientifically impossible the Stern did not implode, with the amount of air still within the Hull. If the Stern did not implode, why doesn’t the Bow like the Stern? The Forecastle deck didn’t fold back! The impact would not cause the Smoking room and smoking room roof to be gone on the Stern.

as for the occupants, there’s ample evidence passengers were still inside.

The 'missing' middle section of the ship has nothing to do with 'implosion' and everything to do with a ravaged and failing structure being rapidly plunged down through the water. Likewise the poop deck- water could get UNDER the open forward end of it as it all dropped, causing the peel back. Why didn't the forecastle deck do the same? Because no flow could get under it.

When Titanic broke in two, the double bottom was still partially connected. That dragged the Stern unwillingly down, like if you tried to push a balloon beneath the water. it's buoyant, so it does not go without a fight.

You're speaking in absolutes; you don't know for certain that the double bottom was still connected, and you don't know that it dragged the stern down. But however the stern went down, the fantail end of it would have been the last section to go under, and the most rapidly, so by your logic would have been full of air and 'imploded'. Except, it isn't.

 

[Jim Currie]

Lads, only buoyancy tanks on a surface vessel are sealed, all other compartments for ballast, cargo , fuel, stores and people had to be ventilated. Titanic did not have bouyancy tanks so there was no situation or location on that ship where implosion could take place.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Yes- along with disprovable comments such as the staircase all leaving the ship through the dome.

Not to sound rude, but when did I say the GSC 'all left"? most likely the first or second landing left as a whole and the other bit smashed up inside the ship, and left out through the Broken End of the Bow.

You're speaking in absolutes; you don't know for certain that the double bottom was still connected, and you don't know that it dragged the stern down. But however the stern went down, the fantail end of it would have been the last section to go under, and the most rapidly, so by your logic would have been full of air and 'imploded'. Except, it isn't.

Its the most likely thing to happen. How in the world do you not believe the Stern didn't implode? I doubt all the historians and engineers would say "the Stern imploded" if it didn't! So you're saying, before 300 feet, the Stern was able to equalize??

 

[Mike Bull2019]

Not to sound rude, but when did I say the GSC 'all left"? most likely the first or second landing left as a whole and the other bit smashed up inside the ship, and left out through the Broken End of the Bow.



Its the most likely thing to happen. How in the world do you not believe the Stern didn't implode? I doubt all the historians and engineers would say "the Stern imploded" if it didn't! So you're saying, before 300 feet, the Stern was able to equalize??

Look again-the staircase quote that I replied to was from Darren C.

As for the stern, 'all' historians and engineers do not claim that it has imploded- some do, some don't.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Look again-the staircase quote that I replied to was from Darren C.

As for the stern, 'all' historians and engineers do not claim that it has imploded- some do, some don't.

The Stern did implode--its a a proven fact, the air that became trapped within the Stern couldn't equalize in time, and the pressure was too much. Like how humans can barely dive at depths exceeding 400 feet

 

[Jim Currie]

The Stern did implode--its a a proven fact, the air that became trapped within the Stern couldn't equalize in time, and the pressure was too much. Like how humans can barely dive at depths exceeding 400 feet

Cam, you must demonstrate the proven fact. otherwise you are simply perpetuating nonsense

Look at the plan of the stern section. There are only two very small areas where a tiny amount of air might have been trapped and these were at the aft end of the engine room in way of the fresh water tanks which in all likelyhood would be pressed up from the FW maker at all times.
When sea water at pressure entered a space throught the ventilation system, it would displace any air up through the space ventilation pipes in very large bubbles. All spaces where any form of implosion might have taken place were at or below tank toplevel and these are now buried in the sea bed. Implosion was in no way reponsible for the condition of the aft part of the wreck.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Cam, show the proven fact.

The Derbyshire in the 1980's imploded

Ship Structure Committee: Case Study II: DERBYSHIRE

An Interagency Research and Development Committee for Safer Ship Structures

www.shipstructure.org

Process of Implosion
"Cavitation (bubble formation/collapse in a fluid) involves an implosion process. When a cavitation bubble forms in a liquid (for example, by a high-speed water propeller), this bubble is typically rapidly collapsed—imploded—by the surrounding liquid."
(Implosion (mechanical process) - Wikipedia )

Titanic Survivors report hearing "explosions" from underneath the waves--we know the Boilers did not explode

OSMAN: …After she got to a certain angle she exploded, broke in halves, and it seemed to me as if all the engines and everything that was in the after part slid out into the forward part, and the after part came up right again, and as soon as it came up right down it went again.
SENATOR BURTON. What do you think those explosions were?
Mr. OSMAN. The boilers bursting.
SENATOR BURTON. What makes you think that?
Mr. OSMAN. The cold water coming under the red-hot boilers caused the explosions.
SENATOR BURTON. You reasoned that out?
(link-file:///C:/Users/Cameron%20Houseman/Downloads/ARTICLEBreakupoftheTitanic.pdf)

And, here's my own thoughts-
The remaining air within the Stern formed air pockets. As the Stern got deeper and deeper, the water pressure became too much. Thus, the air needed to escape. She imploded, ripping through the Hull, and most likely from under the Third Class General room and Third Class Smoke Room.

You're going to hate me for it, but here's the Final Plunge.

Do you see how the remaining air is trying to force its way through portholes, and eventually, the Number 5 Cargo Hatch? Air will, and can, force its way out. Like how some Harland and Wolff engineers insist Titanic sank intact, and broke in two 800 feet down, due to large amounts of air being trapped in the food lockers.

 

[Jim Currie]

The Derbyshire in the 1980's imploded

Ship Structure Committee: Case Study II: DERBYSHIRE

An Interagency Research and Development Committee for Safer Ship Structures

www.shipstructure.org

Process of Implosion
"Cavitation (bubble formation/collapse in a fluid) involves an implosion process. When a cavitation bubble forms in a liquid (for example, by a high-speed water propeller), this bubble is typically rapidly collapsed—imploded—by the surrounding liquid."
(Implosion (mechanical process) - Wikipedia )

Titanic Survivors report hearing "explosions" from underneath the waves--we know the Boilers did not explode

OSMAN: …After she got to a certain angle she exploded, broke in halves, and it seemed to me as if all the engines and everything that was in the after part slid out into the forward part, and the after part came up right again, and as soon as it came up right down it went again.
SENATOR BURTON. What do you think those explosions were?
Mr. OSMAN. The boilers bursting.
SENATOR BURTON. What makes you think that?
Mr. OSMAN. The cold water coming under the red-hot boilers caused the explosions.
SENATOR BURTON. You reasoned that out?
(link-file:///C:/Users/Cameron%20Houseman/Downloads/ARTICLEBreakupoftheTitanic.pdf)

And, here's my own thoughts-
The remaining air within the Stern formed air pockets. As the Stern got deeper and deeper, the water pressure became too much. Thus, the air needed to escape. She imploded, ripping through the Hull, and most likely from under the Third Class General room and Third Class Smoke Room.

You're going to hate me for it, but here's the Final Plunge.
View attachment 50214

Do you see how the remaining air is trying to force its way through portholes, and eventually, the Number 5 Cargo Hatch? Air will, and can, force its way out. Like how some Harland and Wolff engineers insist Titanic sank intact, and broke in two 800 feet down, due to large amounts of air being trapped in the food lockers.

From the Ship Structure Committee Investigation into the loss of the MV Derbyshire
"Any air filled, air tight, compartment that was not damaged before sinking occurred would experience an increasing pressure differential with increasing water depth. At some point the outside pressure will exceed the pressure that the hull can resist. The compartment would then implode."

The above statement is incomplete and therefore technically incorrect. I have added the necessary wording to make it correct.
If you are 15 my friend then you should be at school because you are making too many mistakes. For your information, I wrote reports like the one you quoted for a living. I suggest you scrap the avatar and let us all see what you really look like.

 

[Cam Houseman]

From the Ship Structure Committee Investigation into the loss of the MV Derbyshire
"Any air filled, air tight, compartment that was not damaged before sinking occurred would experience an increasing pressure differential with increasing water depth. At some point the outside pressure will exceed the pressure that the hull can resist. The compartment would then implode."

The above statement is incomplete and therefore technically incorrect. I have added the necessary wording to make it correct.
If you are 15 my friend then you should be at school because you are making too many mistakes. For your information, I wrote reports like the one you quoted for a living. I suggest you scrap the avatar and let us all see what you really look like.

1. Today is a half-day and I do not know when my afternoon classes begin.
2. Jim, you keep suggesting that I am lying about my age. I am not. As for my image, I do not like what I look like. Therefor I will not change my avatar thing.

Back to topic.

The Stern was not damaged, other than the Gaping hole at the forward end. The water coming on would block the air from escaping, thus creating a blockage. The water coming towards the aft end still had to navigate the Hallways and passages. Areas like the Third Class Store, would remain airtight until she imploded.

Last thing, funny you say "scrapped" as today was when Olympic began her journey from Southampton to the scrapyard

 

[Samuel Halpern]

"Any air filled, air tight, compartment that was not damaged before sinking occurred would experience an increasing pressure differential with increasing water depth. At some point the outside pressure will exceed the pressure that the hull can resist. The compartment would then implode."

How could they have left off the words "air tight" in that sentence? As you and Darren C point out, if a compartment is NOT airtight, there could be no implosion because there could not be a differential between inside and outside pressures. The trapped air will simply compress with depth. I don't think there would be any visible air left down at 25,000psi. Like a can of soda (or pop as it is sometimes called) the gas will likely dissolve in the liquid never to be seen again.

 

[Cam Houseman]

How could they have left off the words "air tight" in that sentence? As you and Darren C point out, if a compartment is NOT airtight, there could be no implosion because there could not be a differential between inside and outside pressures. The trapped air will simply compress with depth. I don't think there would be any visible air left down at 25,000psi. Like a can of soda (or pop as it is sometimes called) the gas will likely dissolve in the liquid never to be seen again.

So you believe the Stern didn't implode either?

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Do you see how the remaining air is trying to force its way through portholes, and eventually, the Number 5 Cargo Hatch?

It's called special effects Cam. It's for dramatic enhancement. Just like hearing a starship blow up in outer space. They add sound to it, when in reality there would be no sound in the vacuum of space. Away, when something implodes it doesn't spray outward; it collapses inward.

 

[Cam Houseman]

It's called special effects Cam. It's for dramatic enhancement. Just like hearing a starship blow up in outer space. They add sound to it, when in reality there would be no sound in the vacuum of space. Away, when something implodes it doesn't spray outward; it collapses inward.

I didn't mean the special effects were real, I was using it for example.

When the Stern imploded, it did collapse inwards, destroying walls and pillars and other support structures. Then, when the Stern slammed into the seabed, that enabled the Stern to Pancake.