What REALLY happened with Chief Baker Charles Joughin?

[Mike Spooner]

What is ever said about the man we must not belittle him. He definitely put the lives of others before his own. He was allocated from the crew list as captain of boat No10. The fact he never got that position wasn't his problem. He went out of his way to get loafs of bread for those in boats. He also on his own initiative throw about 50 deck chairs overboard in a tempt to save others. Him have a drink of liqueur seem to be blow out of proportion for the Hollywood drama films. As is mentation in the UK inquiry he went down for a drink of water, was that ever mention in the film?
It would appear he was of great help in the guidance of third class passengers toward the boat deck to. Give the man credit where it is due. (Excuse the pun if he was a live to day definitely have a drink on me)

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Given the lack of firsthand accounts about Joughin's whereabouts after the sinking......

There are very few first hand accounts of many survivors who left the ship one way or anothet after about 01:45 am. We have to rely on their own statements with the likes of Jack Thayer, Harold Bride, John Collins etc. Many of those who survived on the makeshift 'raft' formed by the overturned Collapsible B do not have 'other' third party evdence to support their claims. In case of Joughin, as I mentioned above there is a reference in OASOG that Maynard agreed with Joughin's claim in a (now missing) deposition that he submitted to the British Commission.

Just like your claim that there is no Third Party verification of Joughin's claim of being on Collapsible B, there is no one who survived on that boat who claimed that the baker wasn't there. The nearest is Lightoller saying that he could not remember Joughin being one of the many people standing on top of the overturned Collapsible B when he, Lightoller, was asked a related leading question.

On the other hand, Joughin's statement is remarkably similar to Lightoller's about the scenario on top of the Collapsible boat. Here is an excerpt:

6085. Then you spoke of a collapsible boat. Tell us shortly about it?
- Just as it was breaking daylight I saw what I thought was some wreckage, and I started to swim towards it slowly. When I got near enough, I found it was a collapsible not properly upturned but on its side, with an Officer and I should say about twenty or twenty-five men standing on the top of it.

6086. (The Commissioner.) With an Officer and what?
- I should say roughly about twenty-five men standing on the top - well, on the side, not on the top.

6087. (The Solicitor-General.) Do you know which Officer it was?
- Yes, Mr. Lightoller.

Somewhere in that darkness was Charles Joughin. I don't believe that he was in the water (at least not for long).

Joughin certainly was not in the water for more than 10 or 15 minutes, if that. Capsized and no one on top being able to row, Collapsible B would not have drifted far after floating away from the sinking ship. Joughin simply managed to swim to it and was eventually helped on board by Maynard and perhaps a couple of others.

 

[brionboyles]

Armchair opinion:
I am willing to give Joughin's story a large benefit of doubt, and a dose of salt.
1. Joughin, by his own admission, was probably inebriated. Not something to be proud of, nor a flattering picture to present to the press, an inquiry, or one's employers.

2. I'd imagine that the events he recalled before abandoning ship were fairly ingrained to his mind by adrenalin, although subject to some alcoholic confusion. As a professional seagoing man, his duties, inclinations, contributions and situational awareness were perhaps more instinctive and familiar than a passengers' (ie stocking the boats with bread, tossing deck chairs, helping load the boats, etc...).

3. His exact whereabouts and movements (such as climbing the rails, "riding" the stern down like an elevator, the manner in which he finally entered the water, etc...), were in the context of almost complete darkness after the break-up/loss of electric power, and probably further confused by the crowd of humanity swarming about him. (imagine trying to determine your location or the direction you are facing in a darkened room full of panicked people).

4. That said, once in the water... a few minutes immersed in that cold could seem like hours. 15 or 20 minutes could seem an eternity... particularly when drunk.

5. He DID suffer frostbite in his extremities, so he DID come in contact with the water at some point. Were he actually in a lifeboat from the get-go, I seriously doubt he would have allowed his feet to remain immersed in bilge-water for the next several hours until rescue. Were any other survivors in boats 10 or 12 so afflicted? Did any other survivors mention that much water in their boats, such as the observant Mrs. Shelly?

6. How did Mrs. Shelly identify a "baker"? Why not a steward? Cook? I believe Joughin had a life jacket. That alone would make such a determination difficult, without asking him outright (which also suggests further conversations with others in the boat). Her clearest chance of identifying him as a "baker" would be in the lights of TITANIC, yet none of the other crew in the boat identifies him as such... despite repeated inquiry as to who was in their boat.

7. While a stoker or some young seaman might remain anonymous, I believe Joughin was perhaps known to at least one of the surviving officers, particularly Lightoller. Why tempt repercussions with an obvious lie in the face of possible contradiction from such an authority figure, particularly a fastidious observer/professional seaman as Lightoller? Lowe, Boxhall and Pittman could also have easily recalled some detail that would have cast shade on Joughin's tale... and had decades to do so, but not a peep.
Certainly one would have contacted Walter Lord after his book and the movie came out... and Lord had plenty of time to correct the record. Joughin's story is prominent in "A Night To Remember", which was a very popular movie and critical success. Many survivors attended the premier, and maintained contact with Lord long after. He was not shy about reporting new evidence and corrections, as he proved in "The Night Lives On".
So it goes with ALL "conspiracy theories"... someone eventually "talks".

Therefore, I believe much of Joughin's story.
The fantastical bits of his tale are generally his solo actions during the horrific plunge, the manner in which he entered the water, his actions in the water, etc... occurred in total darkness... and subject to interpretation by an inebriated, frozen, and perhaps panic-stricken mind. Other snippets... like his repeated trips for a drink, his ride on the rails, his dunking in the water without hardly getting his hair wet... are entirely unverifyable by anyone that survived. In other words, entirely free of criticism or chance of rebuke. Therein lies the chance for a bit of innocuous, harmless embellishment for a more entertaining story.
The believable bits... his actions at the boats prior to the break-up, his eventual rescue from the water onto the upturned collapsible (no matter how long he spent in either), etc... happened with plenty of potential witnesses in the bright glow of TITANIC's decks and the brightening dawn of day.