What would you have done if you were Smith

[Charmaine Sia]

Firstly, slow the ship down, especially with low visibility and fog. It has been mentioned over and over again how clear the sky was, and thus the risk of not seeing an iceberg until it was too late would be high. No matter what James Bruce Ismay said, I would not have sped the ship up.

Secondly, pay attention to the iceberg warnings. There were many that the Titanic received, and some even did not get sent to the bridge because Phillips and Bride were busy. I would have asked them to pass every message immediately, and not put such emphasis on the passenger's telegraph requests.

Thirdly, ensure that more people were loaded into each lifeboat. Lifeboat 1 was a huge disgrace, leaving with only 12 people on board!

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Hi Charmaine. Point by point here.

1)Slowing the ship down in adverse conditions. A good idea. The trouble is that then (And even now) ships masters are under considerable pressure to meet schedules and not just from the management, but the traveling public as well.

2)I can't really say that they ignored the iceberg warnings. One of them was posted on the bridge long befor the accident so they can scarcely plead ignorance. What it all boils down to is that ever present pressure to step on the gas in all conditions or masters would find themselves being replaced by one who would. As to the messages being passed on by the wireless, two points to remember here.
<FONT COLOR="ff0000">a) if it wasn't addressed from one master to another...and several weren't...it doesn't get priority treatment.
<FONT COLOR="ff0000">b)The Marconi like all wireless of the period was operated as a business. Passengers messages were their bread and butter. Short of official messages between masters and distress calls, the commercial traffic recieved priority.
3)No arguement there on the lifeboats. They should have been loaded to capacity. The proiblem however was that for the longest time, the prevailing attitude was one of disbelief that the ship would sink, at least befor help arrived.

Put yourself in the position of a pampered first class lady faced with two choices; take a chance in an open lifeboat on the open ocean at night, or stay in the apparent comfortable warmth of the ship itself. Bear in mind that you, along with an number of others don't really believe that this ship is going to sink. What would you do?

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Charmaine Sia]

Michael,

Thank you very much for going through each point. I really appreciate you doing so - it increases my knowledge of what could and could not have been done at that time.

b)The Marconi like all wireless of the period was operated as a business. Passengers messages were their bread and butter. Short of official messages between masters and distress calls, the commercial traffic recieved priority.

I had thought of this point already. To tell you the truth, if it was really me as the captain, I would have gone to take the messages from the wireless operators regularly, but I realise that this is really a rather ridiculous thing to suggest, which is why I didn't mention it.

Put yourself in the position of a pampered first class lady faced with two choices; take a chance in an open lifeboat on the open ocean at night, or stay in the apparent comfortable warmth of the ship itself. Bear in mind that you, along with an number of others don't really believe that this ship is going to sink. What would you do?

I'm having a bit of a difficulty, because I'm trying to answer this question as Captain Smith but arguing for the first class lady instead. (That's what you implied, I believe?) I probably would indicate the rising waterline, and point to other first class passengers who had already gone off (if someone has already gone off, that may just show that the situation is not as good as she thinks). But I also realise that there will always be people who are stubborn enough to stay until it's too late.

With thanks,
Charmaine

 

[Michael H. Standart]

On Captain Smith collecting the messages, this is something that a captain would delegate to a subordinate, or otherwise expect to have brought to him. If the traffic was not addressed as official traffic from one captain to another, it's not the sort of thing that would have been given priority.

Regarding a 1st Class lady getting into the lifeboats, in the dark of the night, you likely would not have noticed much of anything until the water began flowing over the forcastle because you wouldn't be able to see it.

Recall also that for the most part, the ship settled slowly enough so that the unsuspecting...and the untrained...might not understand how much trouble the ship is really in.

Oh yes, it's going down, but not too quickly, so why not stand fast until help arrives...and surely it will arrive. It's warm, comfortable, far better then risking a cold open boat on the freezing open ocean at night when it's so-o-o-o-o-o dark, you can't even see where the water is.

See the problem?

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Charmaine Sia]

Michael,

On Captain Smith collecting the messages, this is something that a captain would delegate to a subordinate, or otherwise expect to have brought to him.

Obviously, that is the case. So I can't possibly be going to collect it regularly.

However, I would like to ask if Smith actually delegated one of his subordinates to do so, or just depended on the lookouts to bring the messages over (which as you mentioned, is not given priority)?

Oh yes, it's going down, but not too quickly, so why not stand fast until help arrives...and surely it will arrive. It's warm, comfortable, far better then risking a cold open boat on the freezing open ocean at night when it's so-o-o-o-o-o dark, you can't even see where the water is.

I don't know how to answer that, simply because I'm more inclined to be pessimistic, and so I really wouldn't have acted that way. I do suppose that you're right about waiting, however. I do wonder, though - would first class passengers be the kind to follow their fellow first class passengers if any were getting into the lifeboats?

Again, with thanks,
Charmaine

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Did Smith actually delegate one of his subordinates to do so?

Probably not. In fact, I doubt that anyone even gave it much thought.

"I don't know how to answer that, simply because I'm more inclined to be pessimistic, and so I really wouldn't have acted that way."

Some did, some didn't. It was all a matter of choice...and for some...persuasion. Some couldn't be persuaded to get in the boats for any reason even knowing what was going to happen...like Ida Strauss.

As to whether first class would be inclined to simply follow other first class into the boats...well...I don't think anybody could say for sure. Some might have. Others like Margeret Tobin Brown, were literally thrown in the boat. Dufferent people reacted differently. I don't know what else I can add to that.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Sam Brannigan]

****Oh yes, it's going down, but not too quickly, so why not stand fast until help arrives...and surely it will arrive. It's warm, comfortable, far better then risking a cold open boat on the freezing open ocean at night when it's so-o-o-o-o-o dark, you can't even see where the water is.****

I used to sell pensions (but not any more!!!! Don't disown me!!!) and I used to use the Titanic as an analogy. People didn't want to part with their hard earned cash for some future thirty years away that they couldn't see. A lot of the time their rationale was "My friends don't have one, so I'm alright - I'll get one later" etc. etc.

My point is that if we are in a comfortable and safe situation, as humans we assume that it will always be that way - especially if the illusion is great. Be it a giant liner which is seemingly unsinkable or sorting out money for our old age, people are blinded to reality when it suits them - the old "It won't happen to me" scenario. (wow! I've still got the old sanctimonious touch!)

Whenever I had a particularly hard sale, I pulled out something along the lines of Michael's quote and it wasn't too long before a cheque was being written!!

Commision-hungry regards

Sam

 

[Stacie Crowther]

Slow down and PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE ICE WARNINGS!

 

[Joanne Seiferlein]

Hello, everyone,
I have always thought that Smith should have opted to retire after taking the OLYMPIC on her maiden voyage. but failing that, he should have run TITANIC at a slower rate of speed and taken the iceberg warning and the threat they implied as serious.

 

[David G. Brown]

As Second Officer Ligtholler said, if Titanic had remained stopped...anchored or at dock...it would never have struck an iceberg. Nor would it have carried any passengers. Once the ship began moving, it also began taking many risks--among them icebergs.

With all due respect to Stacie and Joanne, but there are no simple solutions to complex problems. In the end it was not Ismay, Smith, or Murdoch who set Titanic's speed, but the passengers who voted with their ticket money in favor of fast ships. This is no different from today when we accept that an airliner or two will tumble from the sky as a logical consequence of millions of fast, safe passenger flights. No planes would crash if they remained on the ground.

Captain Erik and I are slowly (painfully so) working on an essay aimed at dispelling the myth that Captain Smith ignored the ice warnings. He was cognizant of them and took specific actions which are often overlooked. Sometimes the myth is too good to clutter up with the facts.

But, speed is central to Titanic. In modern vernacular the ship was operating "outside the box." The ship's lookouts, officers, and quartermasters could not react quickly enough to one specific danger when it appeared. This was not as apparent in 1912 as it is today. Most other ships made no more than 15 knots as compared to Titanic's 22. That small increase was more significant than anyone...Titanic crew, passenger, naval architect...anyone understood in 1912.

Captain Rostron's hell-for-leather dash through the ice was possible only because his ship could not achieve Titanic's speed. He had longer to react simply because his ship at "flank" speed was slower than Titanic.

So, at 11:39 p.m. on April 14, 1912 Captain E.J. Smith believed he was operating within the bounds of safety as defined by all previous human seafaring experience. We know that he was wrong, but we have the 100% certainty of hindsight. Captain Smith could only look back on his thousands of days of experience on smaller, slower ships. As I am fond of saying, we cannot condemn him for not having a perfect crystal ball.

However, any mariner who knows of Titanic's fate has no defense for speeding into an ice field. Knowledge can change the future, but it has no bearing on the past.

--David G. Brown

 

[Charmaine Sia]

Captain Dave,

Just a small note:

>This is no different from today when we accept that an airliner or two will tumble from the sky as a logical consequence of millions of fast, safe passenger flights.

I don't think that the analogy is exactly very accurate, because not all passenger flights go at huge speeds, rather there are some that fly at Mach 2 and some at 770km/h (I hope I remembered this number correctly from the last flight I took). But I do understand the underlying message behind what you wrote, just wanted to point this out.

>Knowledge can change the future, but it has no bearing on the past.

I just wanted to say that I really like this sentence of yours. It's a very apt way of puttings things, and I'll remember it for a long time to go. Thanks!

Regards,
Charmaine

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Charmaine said "I don't think that the analogy is exactly very accurate, because not all passenger flights go at huge speeds, rather there are some that fly at Mach 2 and some at 770km/h"

I have to respectfully differ on that one. The point here is not really how fast or slow you go, but the fact that when you get on a ship, plane, train, automobile, or any other convayance, you're taking a risk that something nasty will happen. In this respect, the Titanic was no different from any liner of the time or any form of transportation used today. They all took the same chances. Fortunately, the vast majority made it to the other side of the pond.

However, a few don't.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Charmaine Sia]

Michael,

I realised that my analogy wasn't very accurate after I posted it, because airplanes don't exactly have obstacles that they need to avoid in the air (unless you count turbulence), so their speed isn't a factor at all.

You're right, though. The main point is that taking any mode of transport has its risks. But we all choose to accept them when we take that mode of transport. The Titanic is a case where an incident happened.

Regards,
Charmaine