Will the whole truth be known some day?

[agustin_arg]

Jim:

Desconcia the existence of the ship qe permission of this before 23., But if this is stopped at that time, that ship may not be the titanic. because the titanic never brake until the moment of impact.

* I thought that the night had only seen the mysterious ship, which is what stops at 23:40. you say that the second coming of the south nave. as californian was north of the titanic: unable to give the impression that came south for that? californian because it was north of the titanic. I guess boats are not conducted only in a straight line, but are changing their way. it strikes me that the titanic came from the east, and at one point started to run northwest (and from the californian seems that the ship came from the south).

Moonrise seen the boat. at 4 in the morning. may be the Temple Mount? anyway is not the same as viewed at 23 the day before you?

you say there is no doubt that the ship seen from the titanic move. according to the sayings of Boxhall.

as I told you nothing was marine. but see the red light, white light, or green: does not depend on where the boat stopped? and if the boat moves with the flow? you can stand as it was californian, but the current moved you an instant, and change the position of the lights. I think so.

gibson stone and not feared the captain. I think that you will never get the message of all the rockets. declare that the captain lord. I do not say something to sleep. according gibson told him to signaling with Morse lamp. I think gibson never talk to the fourth lord, is not that reason.

I spend with the mysterious scrap book? porqe ripped the leaves. this gives for thinking that there was something written that did not benefit the members of the californian.

 

[Adam Went]

Hi all,

Jim:

Is it not your theory, though, that the rockets which the Titanic was firing might have been viewed from the Californian as being fired from the smaller vessel, which was presumably jammed between the middle of them?

This is the only question I will ask, as we have debated at length on this subject in previous threads and I have no desire to rehash it all. I'll simply add that if so many officers and crew of the Titanic felt that the lights might have been no more than a reflection, or trickery of the eye on a clear, starlit night, then there is no reason why she same reason couldn't apply to what the officers on the Californian though as well. Rockets, though, are a very different kettle of fish.

Cheers,
Adam.

 

[Jim Currie]

Hi all,

Jim:

Is it not your theory, though, that the rockets which the Titanic was firing might have been viewed from the Californian as being fired from the smaller vessel, which was presumably jammed between the middle of them?

Not my theory Doug.. the interpretation of the word of 2nd Officer Stone. He told Lord that the rockets did not seem to go high enough.. only as high as the other vessel's foremast light. If in fact the other vessel had been 5 miles away and had fired a standard distress rocket it would have burst way above the foremast... possibly 4 or 5 hundred feet above it.
There are two reason for them to appear as described by Stone. The first is that they were not rockets but roman candle flare balls. The second being that they were indeed standard distress signals fired from a vessel way below the horizon and well beyond the nearby vessel.
Apprentice Gibson said he saw a 'flash' which appeared to come from the other vessels deck. If that were so and the rocket went only as high as the foremast light then he was indeed looking at a Roman Candle. If he only imagined he saw a flash and the rocket went as high as the foremast light then the source was at least 20 miles away.
There are two other problems concerning these rockets. Stone said they bore South East in a true direction. However they should have been bearing South-south East in a true direction if Captain Lords estimate of Californian's stopped position had been correct. The difference between these two directions is 22 and a half degrees. Is it shear coincidence that the error of Californian's compass was about 22 and a half degrees? Captain Lord also said the the east edge of the pack ice was trending NNW to SSE., about 3 miles wide and Californian was half a mile east of it's east edge when stopped. Captain Rostron said Carpathia found the survivors about 4 miles South East of the Eastern edge of the pack ice. A simple sketch will show what they were talking about.



2nd Officer Stone said the mystery vessel was bearing SSE by standard compass shortly after midnight when he relieved 3rd Officer Groves on the bridge. He also wrote that it was abeam (90 degrees to the bow)to starboard at that time. But Apprentice Gibson said that the mystery vessel was dead abeam to starboard 15 minutes later. How how could that possibly be since Groves said that Californian was swinging slowly to the right all the time?
Perhaps Stone's memory was playing tricks with him and he forgot that had already compensated for the ship's compass error? If that were true, then instead of that mystery vessel bearing South East by Compass, it would have been bearing South by compass. Applying the compass error would then have made the true bearing SSE not SE and everything, including Captain Lord's estimated position for Californian would have fitted neatly together.
You and others must keep in mind that when all this information came out, it was not known that the distress position of Titanic given by Boxhall was wrong by over 12 miles and that Titanic should have been seen from Californian to the left, not the right of South.
My bet is that the examiners could not make things fit so instead of trying to do so, they insinuated that Lord and his officers were wrong or worse still; cheating or lying. To make things fit, they simply ignored some evidence in preference for other evidence that made things fit better. That's probably why they favoured 3rd Officer Stone's version.. it bent the direction of the mystery vessel form Californian more to the right of South than to the left of it.

A lot for you to think about... have fun.

Jim C.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

>>Stone and Gibson saw their boat disappear to the southwest, not the south east. The rockets were seen to the southeast so their boat disappeared in the wrong direction to Titanic. <<

But, Stone also said: "But that I could not understand why if the rockets came from a steamer beyond this one, when the steamer altered her bearing the rockets should also alter their bearings."

Stone also said that the steamer started to alter her bearings toward the SW after he saw the 2nd rocket, yet we have from Gibson that the vessel's red sidelight did not disappear until after the the 7th rocket was seen. And by the way, both Stone and Gibson said these were white rockets throwing stars when they burst. I'd rule out them being Roman candles with that.

 

[Adam Went]

Jim:

I'm going to need some considerable time to try and analyse all that....talk to you in about ten years! Haha!

Cheers,
Adam.

 

[barrykenyon]

Many have hoped that descendants of captain Lord would come up with something new. But Lord died a widower in 1962 and the only son Stanley Tutton Lord died a bachelor in the 1990s. It's interesting that the Wallasey grave, housing all three, does not on the memorial note that Lord was a sea captain. Leslie Harrison, the arch-defender of Lord, once told me (around 1970) that he believed new evidence about a tramp steamer near the Titanic would eventually surface in maritime records on the US eastern seaboard. Of course, it never did. If there had been such a mystery ship which witnessed the death agony of Titanic, it's a fair bet that gossiping seamen would have spread the tale. But silence has reigned.