How Titanic's Engines Sounded

[robert s hauser]

I've always wondered what Titanic (or Olympic for that matter) would have sounded like, both on the ship and from a distance. Would it have been a low throbbing, diesel type sound, or something more along the lines of a giant steam locomotive. Has anyone out there had the opportunity to hear the sound of a large triple expansion reciprocating engine, or anything close? Also, how fast would she have been able to accelerate once the tugs cast off, or did the tugs bring her up to steerage way and then release? Eaton and Haas, in "Destination Disaster" make it sound like the tugs pulled her into the turning circle, and then left her to begin from a standing start. One more thing, wouldn't the emergency "crash stop" performed in the sea trials cause damage to the shafts and what not? Ive heard, via David Brown, that crash stops are rarely performed for this reason, so I wondered how they got around that during the sea trials, particularly as it was before the engines would have been "run in" to any extent. Thanks- Rob Hauser

 

[Brian R Peterson]

Hi Robert!

Fascinating question indeed! I would imagine the engine noise would not be audible outside of the Tank Top or the deck above, I personally have not read or heard of any accounts of external engine noises.

As for the tugs leaving the ship to start from standstill, this is impossible as the tugs only aid in the ship's maneuvers, while they are very powerful they could never tow a 46,000 GRT ocean liner by themselves; she was travelling under her own power the whole time, just at "AHEAD SLOW" which I estimate would been about 5 knots.

As for a crash stop during trials if one was performed more than likely not, damage is possible to the boss arms and propellers themselves, it is more likely that the whole ship would have shuddered violently, probably throwing everyone on board off their feet.

Best Regards,

Brian

 

[Alec Barker]

Hi,
I am curiouse, what are these "crash stops"?
Is it where you put the engines straight into full astern?
Thanks in advance,
Alec

 

[Brian R Peterson]

Hi Alec!

A "crash stop" as it is known is where a ship ordered its engines from FULL/HALF/SLOW AHEAD to STOP to FULL ASTERN it was supposed to act as an emergency brake so to speak to rapidly slow the forward momentum.

It is a very elaborate process requiring the presence of a docking crew in the engine room and could not be done at the drop of a hat so odds are this would be a last resort for use as an emergency maneuver.

It has been suggested that the Titanic executed a crash stop to avoid the iceberg, however for the reasons listed above this would have been impossible to carry out, and had it been you would have had many passengers recalling being launched from their bunks and the violent shuddering of the ship.

Best Regards,

Brian

 

[David G. Brown]

Despite what I wrote in my book, "Last Log," my further research shows that Murdoch indeed ordered ASTERN FULL prior to impact. However, the timing of this order is such that it had no hope of accomplishing anything with regard to either the engines or Titanic's headway. Why, then, did he do it? My only answer is that he was sending a message, not an engine order. I suggest he was telling the men in the engine room that something bad was about to happen. I have seen reports that during both World Wars bridge crews used such signals to alert engineers to get out when a torpedo was coming their way.

The only engine order that was obeyed was STOP. This order was sent after the accident on both the emergency and standard engine order telegraph sets. That's curious. Even a man of Murdoch's stature could not have operated both sets simultaneously. It took four hands to move the four levers--two on each set. Plus the instruments were more than an arm's span apart.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Noel F. Jones]

Engine Noise:

In a turbine vessel, outside the engine room and apart from manoeuvring, it is usually difficult if not impossible to discern if the engines are running at all.

Steam reciprocating engines are discernible but are an oasis of calm compared with the constant vibration and exhaust beats produced by a motor ship.

To an external observer only a motor vessel gives an audible manifestation of engaged power.

While 'full astern' from 'FAOP' would undoubtedly generate heavy vibration, rest assured no-one would be disensconced from their bunks thereby.

Noel

 

[Brian R Peterson]

Hi Noel!

I have to disagree that one would be knocked off their feet or out of their beds had Titanic executed a crash stop, Newton's Laws of Motion provide the evidence this theory.

*hypothetical situation* Picture 46,000 tons of long steel booking along at 21 knots, (about 25-28 MPH) - the iceberg is sighted, Murdoch orders FULL ASTERN, a crash stop is executed.

When the engines are disengaged and depressurized in order to reverse them, the windmilling propellers act as an anchor and create a significant drag against the forward momentum of the ship introducing all on board to the wonderful world of cavitation.

This cavitation would create a vibration that could wake the dead and the sudden and rapid loss of the forward momentum would cause everything not securely fastened down such as drinking glasses, washbasins and passengers to be unsettled.

Best regards,

Brian

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>This cavitation would create a vibration that could wake the dead .<<

Especially with the wheels in use back then, none of which are as refined as they are now.

>>and the sudden and rapid loss of the forward momentum would cause everything not securely fastened down such as drinking glasses, washbasins and passengers to be unsettled.<<

Uhhhhhh...not neseccerily. I've been on several ships where this was done and it was a lot more likely that the vibration would set things to moving. A mass in the region of 50,000+ tonnes does not stop on a dime so the decelleration is *just* gradual enough in some instances so that objects at rest aren't sent flying. The ship doesn't always slow rapidly enough to overcome the inertia of whatever is sitting around.

I still wouldn't want to chance it though because as often as not, some things do go flying. That's why there's always an effort to make sure everything is secured properly.

 

[Noel F. Jones]

Well quite!

Brian; having taken into account your exposition of the effects of cavitation and inertia I can only reiterate:

While 'full astern' from 'FAOP' would undoubtedly generate heavy vibration, rest assured no-one would be disensconced from their bunks thereby.

Noel

 

[David G. Brown]

Noel-- While researching my book "Last Log," I talked to a man who was very much "disensconced" from his bunk during a crash stop. Admittedly, he was berthed in the stern area of an aircraft carrier which had four props and more power than Titanic. However, several men in upper berths suffered broken bones as a result of the mishap.

His story is what got me to thinking about the supposed "crash back" of Titanic's engines. While passengers might have remained ensconced in their beds, the experience for second and third class passengers berthed above the wing screws would have been unforgettable. There is no testimony of the kind of vibrations that would be expected from crashing back the engines.

There was, however, strong enough vibration from the stern to fool some of the hotel staff in the first class galley. Some had apparently been on Olympic when it lost a blade from one of its propellers. They quickly ascribed Titanic's vibration to the same cause. That mistake is understandable. What is significant is that they knew the vibration was from the stern and not the bow where ice was battering away at steel.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Admittedly, he was berthed in the stern area of an aircraft carrier which had four props and more power than Titanic. However, several men in upper berths suffered broken bones as a result of the mishap.<<

Uhhhhh...ouch! Leave it to David to show the other side of the coin! Can't say as I'm surprised by this. The people involved weren't berthed in what's regarded as "prime real estate" on a carrier. The noise from cavitation at speed as well as the vibration in the stern of a carrier is numbing to say the least.

David, you wouldn't happen to recall offhand what ship this was on and what they had to slam on the brakes for, would you?

 

[Noel F. Jones]

Well, thank you for that but I was talking merchant ships. For the sake of brevity I purposefully didn't add that proviso.

Even so, I am surprised at this aircraft carrier experience. Seems like a deficit in scantlings to me having regard to the power available in the vessel. Cheese-paring budgets - or optimistic designers?

Noel

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Or perhaps just plain raw power either alone or with all of the above? (It's not as if this would be the first time corners were cut on a government contract!)

A Nimitz class carrier can crank out 280,000 shaft horsepower. An older Essex class ship could still crank out 150,000. Slam on the brakes with that much muscle, and something's going to get the dirty end of the stick.

 

[David G. Brown]

I think I remember the name of the carrier, but I'll have to check my notes. The event happened in the Straits of Messina when a ferry boat crossed paths with the carrier. Damage to the navy ship, beyond broken crew and crockery, required replacement of shaft bushings and bearings in a European yard. The accident with the ferry, however, was avoided. Bearings and shafts can be replaced, people cannot.

I doubt the problem with the carrier was scantlings. It probably had more to do with the horsepower that was applied to the shafts during the emergency maneuver. Then again, perhaps the ship already had some weak or worn bushings (a likely source for vibration) and the crash back was too much for their condition.

My source for the story said that from the crew's perspective the real disaster was in the galley. It seems the ship lost a sizeable percentage of its china coffee mugs. For several weeks coffee could only be enjoyed by "hot mugging" it.

I don't believe that Titanic would have tossed people out of their bunks during a crash stop. My mentioning of the aircraft carrier incident is simply by way of illustrating the magnitude of a crash stop. However, because of the magnitude of such an event I believe it would have produced lots of stories among passengers about being at least violently awakened--stories which are virtually non-existent in the record.

After carefully re-creating the order of events, I have come to the conclusion that when Murdoch rang down for ASTERN FULL he knew there was not enough time for this order to be obeyed. More likely, he was alerting the engineers that Titanic was in some immediate danger. This use of the engine telegraphs was perfected during both world wars, if my memory serves. The engine order which was obeyed came immediately after impact. It was a simple STOP command.

--David G. Brown

 

[Samuel Halpern]

If they would have had time to reverse the engines full astern it surely would have been noticed by many. Even travelling on the Staten Island ferry for many a year, one cannot but take notice when they apply forward thrust to stop the forward movement of the vessel as it comes up to the end of the slip. Sometimes they have to use some high revs to cut down the speed so as to be able to drift to a comfortable stop for the last few feet as the lines are thrown overboard. The vibration is loud and very obvious no matter where you are located on the vessel. The deceleration is not as noticeable, and nobody standing falls down. (As it slips in, the ferry usually hits the side pilings which have lots of give before stopping any side movement. This you may have to hold on for.) Cannot but imaging what it was like in last week's accident in NY without any slowing beforehand.