Jack Phillips' final moments

[Arun Vajpey]

Who are the documented witnesses other than Harold Bride who claim to have seen Jack Phillips alive in the final minutes before the Titanic broke-up and sank? I mean all of those who claim to have seen him after 02:15, approximately the time he and Bride left the Marconi room and went their separate ways.

Somehow I find it difficult to believe Lightoller's statements about Phillips clinging on to Collapsible B for while and even conversing with the Second Officer before slipping into the icy Atlantic waters to his death. How well did Lightoller know the two 'Sparks'? Did he mistake Bride for Phillips? According to Bride, Phillips went aft and away from Collapsible B when the two left the radio shack. If Phillips had somehow turned-up at the overturned lifeboat, surely Bride would have remembered it?

 

[Toma]

Who are the documented witnesses other than Harold Bride who claim to have seen Jack Phillips alive in the final minutes before the Titanic broke-up and sank? I mean all of those who claim to have seen him after 02:15, approximately the time he and Bride left the Marconi room and went their separate ways.

Somehow I find it difficult to believe Lightoller's statements about Phillips clinging on to Collapsible B for while and even conversing with the Second Officer before slipping into the icy Atlantic waters to his death. How well did Lightoller know the two 'Sparks'? Did he mistake Bride for Phillips? According to Bride, Phillips went aft and away from Collapsible B when the two left the radio shack. If Phillips had somehow turned-up at the overturned lifeboat, surely Bride would have remembered it?

Steward Thomas Whiteley also said that he had seen Phillips on a folding boat B. According to Whiteley, Phillips talked about ships going to help and at dawn Phillips died. Proceeding from the stories of Whiteley and Bryde, Phillips was taken aboard the Capratia, already dead, and he was buried at sea from the deck of Carpathia.
I do not think that Lightoller could mistake Phillips and Bryde. According to Lightoller, the radio operator STANDED before him. It seems to me that Bride could not stand - because he was lying on an upturned boat, because he had a leg injury.
Sorry for my bad english

 

[Arun Vajpey]

But standing or lying down, Bride would have definitely noticed his colleague Phillips at some stage if the latter was also on board the over turned Collapsible B in whatever state of health. Furthermore, Bride had no reason to hide that fact - if indeed it had been a fact; what would be the point? If Phillips was anywhere near Collapsible B, Bride would not only have recognised him, but would have known that some others, among them Second Office Lightoller, would have done the same. The fact that Bride made no mention of Phillips near Collapsible B suggests to me that the senior 'spark' was never there in the first place.

 

[Toma]

But standing or lying down, Bride would have definitely noticed his colleague Phillips at some stage if the latter was also on board the over turned Collapsible B in whatever state of health. Furthermore, Bride had no reason to hide that fact - if indeed it had been a fact; what would be the point? If Phillips was anywhere near Collapsible B, Bride would not only have recognised him, but would have known that some others, among them Second Office Lightoller, would have done the same. The fact that Bride made no mention of Phillips near Collapsible B suggests to me that the senior 'spark' was never there in the first place.

Maybe Bride in the dark just did not notice his colleague...

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Maybe Bride in the dark just did not notice his colleague...

Philips was never aboard boat B. There were 4 bodies taken aboard Carpathia and later buried at sea, none of them was Phillips.
The Fate of Jack Phillips

 

[Arun Vajpey]

That is a good article and I believe the analysis therein. A lot of Titanic experts believe that Lightoller's book Titanic and Other Ships, written 22 years after the sinking, is heavily embellished and should the allowed the latitude normally given to an old sea dog reminiscing. I have the book and his statements about Phillips do sound convincing and almost certainly the source of the myth that the senior radio man was on top of the capsized Collapsible B. As for Bride, he says something about being "told" that Phillips was also there and yet during the hearing he speaks as though he actually saw him.

IMO, Phillips and Bride separated at around 02:15 am when they came out of the radio shack with the former going towards the apparent safety of the dry stern and Bride towards what was left of the bow section above water.

 

[Toma]

Somehow I believe the testimony of the steward Whiteley

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Whiteley changed his story with every newspaper account he gave.

 

[mackmitchell94]

This is something that has caused me great thought since becoming interested in Jack Phillips' story about 14 years ago. I used to completely believe Phillips was on collapsible B and simply died of exposure before Bride noticed he was there. However recently I'm not so sure Phillips ever made it to B. Bride said the last he saw of Phillips was on top of the officers quarters, Phillips walked aft on the roof and bride went to assist with Boat B. This would've been about 2:10, so just 10 minutes before the ship completely sank. Bride and Lightollers group eventually got "B" free and that's when the bow suddenly plunged, and a huge wave washed most of the people on deck into the sea. You'd think Phillips, being in that general area and seeing collapsible B, would've took his chances with the boat even if it was overturned.. There was also collapsible A on the strbd side at this time, maybe Phillips went to Boat A instead when the bow suddenly plunged. One thing to keep in mind however is that there was endless ways to get dead in this particular area of the ship at this time.

Capt Smith, Cheif Offcr Wilde, Murdoch, Lightoller and Moody were also in this area when the ship went down and only one of those men (Lights) was lucky enough to survive. It's either Phillips continued walking aft towards the stern or he stayed in the general area but was killed in the sinking by falling funnels, suction via ventilator shaft, explosion, drowning etc. One of the key things to remember is Phillips had a lifebelt on, and the fact his body wasn't recovered is curious.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Good post. But IMO, it was closer to 02:15 am by the time Phillips and Bride left the radio shack, about a minute or so before the flooding reached a point when the Titanic suddenly lost its longitudinal stability and lurched forwards and downwards, resulting in that 'wave'. I think it is very likely that Phillips had gone aft towards the rising stern, to eventually get lost among the teeming hundreds there and die with them. It was just chance that Bride made the right choice in going towards the sinking bow section.

Looking at it another way, several people, Baker Joughin for example, remained at the rising stern end and survived, while others, like Milton Long took their chances near the bow and perished. It was just a matter of chance, being in the right spot at the right time. Worked out for some, did not for others.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

This is something that has caused me great thought since becoming interested in Jack Phillips' story about 14 years ago. I used to completely believe Phillips was on collapsible B and simply died of exposure before Bride noticed he was there. However recently I'm not so sure Phillips ever made it to B. Bride said the last he saw of Phillips was on top of the officers quarters, Phillips walked aft on the roof and bride went to assist with Boat B. This would've been about 2:10, so just 10 minutes before the ship completely sank. Bride and Lightollers group eventually got "B" free and that's when the bow suddenly plunged, and a huge wave washed most of the people on deck into the sea. You'd think Phillips, being in that general area and seeing collapsible B, would've took his chances with the boat even if it was overturned.. There was also collapsible A on the strbd side at this time, maybe Phillips went to Boat A instead when the bow suddenly plunged. One thing to keep in mind however is that there was endless ways to get dead in this particular area of the ship at this time.

Capt Smith, Cheif Offcr Wilde, Murdoch, Lightoller and Moody were also in this area when the ship went down and only one of those men (Lights) was lucky enough to survive. It's either Phillips continued walking aft towards the stern or he stayed in the general area but was killed in the sinking by falling funnels, suction via ventilator shaft, explosion, drowning etc. One of the key things to remember is Phillips had a lifebelt on, and the fact his body wasn't recovered is curious.

One version of the story was that Bride remarked that he had seen Philip's body still lying
in the boat as he (Bride) left the boat and started his climb to get aboard Carpathia.

 

[mackmitchell94]

Good post. But IMO, it was closer to 02:15 am by the time Phillips and Bride left the radio shack, about a minute or so before the flooding reached a point when the Titanic suddenly lost its longitudinal stability and lurched forwards and downwards, resulting in that 'wave'. I think it is very likely that Phillips had gone aft towards the rising stern, to eventually get lost among the teeming hundreds there and die with them. It was just chance that Bride made the right choice in going towards the sinking bow section.

Looking at it another way, several people, Baker Joughin for example, remained at the rising stern end and survived, while others, like Milton Long took their chances near the bow and perished. It was just a matter of chance, being in the right spot at the right time. Worked out for some, did not for others.

This is entirely true, luck had a lot to do with those who survived those final moments and that night in general. We'll never how Phillips met his end but I think we can brainstorm on a few things, first of all: why would Phillips, who likely saw collapsible B, take his chances on the stern of a rapidly sinking and unstable ship rather than on said boat? I mean it was overturned, but it was still a lifeboat... I know hindsight is 20/20 and there was so much happening so fast at the time, but Phillips saw the lifeboat being pushed off. Why wouldn't he help like Bride did? I mean he was there in that general area as far we know. He saw the rising stern, and as Lightoller said, going aft would only postpone the immersion into ice cold seawater and the eventual search for a lifeboat to hopefully be pulled into. Phillips was already by a lifeboat, he saw it . Maybe Phillips did run aft at first but stayed in the general vicinity of the area and DID eventually help on collapsible B. Bride perhaps didn't notice him because as I said he saw him run aft, and he was too focused on dealing with the collapsible to divert his attention to look around and see who was helping with it, and there's also the lighting conditions of that night. I just think it would possibly make no sense for Phillips to go astern on a rapidly foundering ship when he has a lifeboat right in front of him. It is also possible that perhaps Phillips never saw collapsible B since the way Bride described it, it sounds like they exited the wireless shack together then Phillips walked one way and Bride went the other, and that was that.

It is possible that Phillips was on B and amid all the chaos and screaming Bride never noticed until being told about it, and by that time Phillips was already dead and fell off. If Phillips did make it to B, I don't think he lasted long and surely not til dawn like Whitley and Lightoller in his book says. I think if Phillips did last til dawn, Bride surely would've noticed by then.

Lastly as I said, I'm sure Phillips had a lifebelt on since him and Bride in fact went through all that trouble with the stoker to keep that lifebelt. Since this is the case, how was his body not found? It is possible his body just drifted away from the site and was never recovered, the ships sent to recover the dead only found about 328 bodies I believe. That opens up the question of how many people were actually in the water after the ship sank. Was it really 1500 people screaming, or was it closer to 400 and the other 1100 died in the sinking? We will never know .

 

[mackmitchell94]

One version of the story was that Bride remarked that he had seen Philip's body still lying
in the boat as he (Bride) left the boat and started his climb to get aboard Carpathia.

Sorry about the double post, but yes I'm aware of this remark by Bride. However people usually discount it for whatever reason, I think they say Bride just assumed it was Phillips but didn't know for sure. My problem is why would he just assume it was Phillips if he knew what Phillips looked like. Wouldn't he see the dead body and realize it was Phillips ? If that's the case then why wasn't Phillips buried with the other 4 on the Carpathia? Was he maybe buried before ? So many questions in Titanic's story.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

This is entirely true, luck had a lot to do with those who survived those final moments and that night in general. We'll never how Phillips met his end but I think we can brainstorm on a few things, first of all: why would Phillips, who likely saw collapsible B, take his chances on the stern of a rapidly sinking and unstable ship rather than on said boat? I mean it was overturned, but it was still a lifeboat... I know hindsight is 20/20 and there was so much happening so fast at the time, but Phillips saw the lifeboat being pushed off. Why wouldn't he help like Bride did? I mean he was there in that general area as far we know. He saw the rising stern, and as Lightoller said, going aft would only postpone the immersion into ice cold seawater and the eventual search for a lifeboat to hopefully be pulled into. Phillips was already by a lifeboat, he saw it . Maybe Phillips did run aft at first but stayed in the general vicinity of the area and DID eventually help on collapsible B. Bride perhaps didn't notice him because as I said he saw him run aft, and he was too focused on dealing with the collapsible to divert his attention to look around and see who was helping with it, and there's also the lighting conditions of that night. I just think it would possibly make no sense for Phillips to go astern on a rapidly foundering ship when he has a lifeboat right in front of him. It is also possible that perhaps Phillips never saw collapsible B since the way Bride described it, it sounds like they exited the wireless shack together then Phillips walked one way and Bride went the other, and that was that.

It is possible that Phillips was on B and amid all the chaos and screaming Bride never noticed until being told about it, and by that time Phillips was already dead and fell off. If Phillips did make it to B, I don't think he lasted long and surely not til dawn like Whitley and Lightoller in his book says. I think if Phillips did last til dawn, Bride surely would've noticed by then.

Lastly as I said, I'm sure Phillips had a lifebelt on since him and Bride in fact went through all that trouble with the stoker to keep that lifebelt. Since this is the case, how was his body not found? It is possible his body just drifted away from the site and was never recovered, the ships sent to recover the dead only found about 328 bodies I believe. That opens up the question of how many people were actually in the water after the ship sank. Was it really 1500 people screaming, or was it closer to 400 and the other 1100 died in the sinking? We will never know .

I would think that all 1500 would eventually be in the water , one way or another , and died in the sinking.

 

[mackmitchell94]

Well you know, I meant how many died actually on the ship while it was sinking, and how many died freezing to death in the water afterwards. One way or another, 1500 died.