Amateur radio heard SOS in Welsh town 2,000 miles away

[Julian Atkins]

Your Welcome. Just a quick question. A little off topic but oh well. Why do a lot of those villages have such strangely spelled names? Nordic or some other language? Just curious.

The Welsh language.

In the present case, Ynysddu is said “un-us-dee” (though a double D = “th” followed by a U = “ee” should be said as “thee”, but locally in this case the double D is said as in English and Welsh for a single D).

(Ynys means island in Welsh, and Ddu is black in Welsh. Ynysddu isn’t an island nor black, so the origin of the village name is unknown).

Gelligroes has that lovely double L which requires the tongue to be at the back of the top teeth. Simplified as a “thl” sound. I always think that if someone can say “athletic”, then they can do the double L sound in Welsh pronunciation. “roes” approximates to “royce” as in Rolls Royce. Gelligroes is (approximately) “gethlygroyce”. (With apologies to any Welsh speakers).

Ty Llywed farm. Ty = “tee”. Farm is farm as in English, and it would appear to be said the same in Welsh. Llywed is sort of said as “thluid”. (Again with apologies to Welsh speakers). Ty is house, and Llywed in this situation might be brown.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch in Anglesey, Wales, is the longest single town name on Earth with its 58 letters. The village attracts a large number of tourists, at least partly due to its name. I've been there but cannot pronounce the name.

Legend has it that Hollywood actress Jane Fonda practiced saying the name correctly for her 1968 film Barbarella in which it was some sort of password. Apparently, she had to say it just once in the film but did so correctly.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

I've often wondered why I always had difficulty learning to spell. It's now very clear to me.

 

[Steven Christian]

The Welsh language.

In the present case, Ynysddu is said “un-us-dee” (though a double D = “th” followed by a U = “ee” should be said as “thee”, but locally in this case the double D is said as in English and Welsh for a single D).

(Ynys means island in Welsh, and Ddu is black in Welsh. Ynysddu isn’t an island nor black, so the origin of the village name is unknown).

Gelligroes has that lovely double L which requires the tongue to be at the back of the top teeth. Simplified as a “thl” sound. I always think that if someone can say “athletic”, then they can do the double L sound in Welsh pronunciation. “roes” approximates to “royce” as in Rolls Royce. Gelligroes is (approximately) “gethlygroyce”. (With apologies to any Welsh speakers).

Ty Llywed farm. Ty = “tee”. Farm is farm as in English, and it would appear to be said the same in Welsh. Llywed is sort of said as “thluid”. (Again with apologies to Welsh speakers). Ty is house, and Llywed in this situation might be brown.

Ok thanks for that information. I often see words like that but don't know how to say them or what language they are from. Welsh. That will help in the future. Not dissimilar here. A lot of words where I live are of native american origin and are not pronounced the way the are spelled. I had a co-worker who was from Ireland. Often you couldn't understand him. When you told him to speak english he would get insensed and declare that he did speak english. The King's English. We would tell him to "speak merican then". All in fun of course.

 

[Julian Atkins]

The only other Welsh language possible query that comes to mind re matters Titanic is 3rd Officer Eric Rees on the Carpathia. The surname Rees would be said as “Reece”.

(I hasten to add that I don’t speak Welsh, and everything I have stated is only rudimentary).

 

[Arun Vajpey]

With regards to Wales' Titanic connections, I wonder if Artie Moore could have met David 'Dai' Bowen and Leslie Williams, the two well known Welsh boxers travelling to America as Third Class passengers? They were from Treherbert & Tonypandy respectively in southern Wales, within a 25 mile radius of Pontllanfraith, where Moore hailed from.

Sadly, both Bowen and Williams died in the sinking.

 

[Mike Spooner]

The amateur radio operator I wander if had inform others of the sinking and would they ever believe him. (As the saying goes, pull the other leg its got bells on)

 

[Julian Atkins]

With regards to Wales' Titanic connections, I wonder if Artie Moore could have met David 'Dai' Bowen and Leslie Williams, the two well known Welsh boxers travelling to America as Third Class passengers? They were from Treherbert & Tonypandy respectively in southern Wales, within a 25 mile radius of Pontllanfraith, where Moore hailed from.

Sadly, both Bowen and Williams died in the sinking.

Hi Arun,

I think it unlikely unless Artie Moore was a boxing fan. Prior to 1909, he appears to have been engrossed in model engineering (as I was at that age) making his own lathe and castings to make his horizontal steam engine. There is no mention in the secondhand accounts of any knowledge by Artie of Bowen and Williams.

I’ve posted a few things on the Artie Moore Facebook group in the last few days. I am surprised that there appears to be no contemporaneous accounts of Artie hearing Titanic’s distress signals so far. If any such accounts exist, which they might well do, then if they are after 20th April 1912, then that was apparently when Bride’s New York Times interview was repeated in all the leading British daily newspapers, and I think one then ought to consider different possibilities.

Off to the Gwent Archives next week to search through the local Newspaper archives and much else besides!

 

[Mark Baber]

Many Welsh newspapers of old are available online, free and searchable.

Welsh Newspapers Online - Home

Search 15 million Welsh newspaper articles

newspapers.library.wales

 

[Julian Atkins]

Hi Mark,

Thank you, but unfortunately no luck so far.

 

[Steven Christian]

Had to go look it up as I didn't really know anything about it. Seems Welsh has it roots in the old Celtic language that goes back to the bronze age. But didn't really develop into it's own until after the Romans left Britain when the tribes/kingdoms re-fragmented. Because some of the words look the same thought it might have something to do with the Vikings but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. An interesting side note...like the Americans during WW2 that used Navajo code talkers because nobody could understand or decode them the British would sometimes use the Welsh language to send messages for the same reason.

Welsh language - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Julian Atkins]

Bit more digging online today. Not particularly significant, but calls into question the ‘legend’ about Artie Moore that only appears to have surfaced after his death in January 1949.

Still nothing contemporaneous about the Titanic stuff. And all subsequent newspaper reports I can find online whilst Artie was alive make no mention of the Titanic stuff.

Leighton Smart, who wrote a booklet on Artie in 2005, stated that as a result of the Titanic stuff, Artie was awarded a scholarship to study then was offered a job by Marconi.

I’ve found a report in the South Wales Gazette 6th October 1911 that Artie was awarded a bursary, by the local sub-committee of higher education, not to exceed £35. So nothing to do with Titanic.

So the further I ‘dig’, I find nothing to support the ‘legend’, only stuff that contradicts it.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Bit more digging online today. Not particularly significant, but calls into question the ‘legend’ about Artie Moore that only appears to have surfaced after his death in January 1949.

I found the excerpts below in Moore's Wikibio. I know that it is not always accurate and depends on who contributed to this but.....

Early on 15 April 1912, over a distance of more than 3,000 miles (4,800 km), Moore heard the distress signal in Morse Code from Titanic, one of the first uses of "SOS". He bicycled to the police station in Caerphilly, where his report was discounted.

Not sure of there was actually record of Moore's report in the Police Station. But even if there was not and one chooses to ignore it if there was, I would have thought there would surely be official records of what's below?

In summer 1912, the publicity surrounding Moore's hearing the Titanic's distress signal led the then Monmouthshire Education Committee to offer him a scholarship to the British School of Telegraphy in London.

I mean, I would have thought that there would be records of that in both Monmouthshire Education Committee as well as the British School of Telegraphy, with the relevant dates.

 

[Mike Spooner]

It may be of great interest a amateur wireless 2000 miles away can pick up ice messages. But it is not for the wireless operators job on Titanic to report every one to the bridge. The Titanic wireless operators are paid by Marconi and there core business is for paying passengers to sent out messages. The only incoming message will be sent to the bridge are the ones addressed to the captain. Any other massagers are just courtesy and will take second choice or not even bother about.

 

[Gordon Mooneyhan]

It may be of great interest a amateur wireless 2000 miles away can pick up ice messages. But it is not for the wireless operators job on Titanic to report every one to the bridge. The Titanic wireless operators are paid by Marconi and there core business is for paying passengers to sent out messages. The only incoming message will be sent to the bridge are the ones addressed to the captain. Any other massagers are just courtesy and will take second choice or not even bother about.

At the British inquiry, officials from the Marconi Company (and perhaps even Mr. Marconi himself) said that "ALL navigational messages, regardless of priority, were to be taken to the bridge IMMEDIATELY" (emphasis added). Whether that was being said to cover their tush is another story. IIRC, that was stated in "Titanic Signals of Disaster"