Collision Point a Reappraisal of Where Titanic Struck the Iceberg

I'd like to let everyone know that a new article by Sam Halpern entitled, "Collision Point," is now available on the GLTS web site.

We have known with certainty the location of Titanic's wreck site since 1985, but where exactly did Titanic encounter the iceberg that sent her to the bottom? In this new article Sam explains how he would arrive at Titanic's collision point, and how his analysis and conclusions differ from those presented by the MAIB in 1992 when they took a new look into the Californian affair. You can read Sam's article here:

http://www.glts.org/articles/halpern/collision_point.html

While you're visiting the GLTS site, please take a look at another excellent article by Sam entitled, "Titanic's Masthead Light." How bright was Titanic's masthead light? Read Sam's article and you'll have a much better understanding just how far her light could be seen on a clear night at sea:

http://www.glts.org/articles/halpern/masthead_light.html

Many thanks to Sam for contributing these two excellent articles to our web site!

Denise
http://www.glts.org/
 
You find it preposterous only because you continue to believe, or have us believe, that the collision happened at the Boxhall SOS location and the ship then carried in an almost neutral buoyancy state by underwater currents for 13 miles east, then broke in half with the two major pieces separated from each other by an undersea earthquake.

Yes it would be interesting to find a professional mariner that would conclude as you do.
 
Quote:

Yes it would be interesting to find a professional mariner that would conclude as you do.

Endquote.

Why would a professional Mariner have any knowledge of say Plate Tectonics, Earthquake theory, Mid-Atlantic Ridge movements and so on.

The answer is they wouldn't. They are quite different areas of knowledge and study.

Unless one can get an expert - let us call them - as the phrase is in fashion here -

A professional Seismologist, experienced in seafloor movements and earthquake seafloor interactions

to a agree.
 
Adding a naval architect to the mix...to deal with the hull's breakup of course...would also be a nice touch.

Such people have already dealt with the sinking part in tank tests, all of which have shown how the bow section behaved as it decended through the water column. All else aside, the location of the boilers in the debris field absolutely refutes the idea that anything would have drifted for 13 miles. These things were flooded solid and would have plummeted straight down after the midsection of the hull disintigrated.

>>Why would a professional Mariner have any knowledge of say Plate Tectonics, Earthquake theory, Mid-Atlantic Ridge movements and so on.<<

An excellant point. Expertise in one or two fields does not carry over into others.
 
It's interesting how far the boilers sank into the sea-floor from the impact. They must have fell straight down like rocks.
Looking around the boilers, they don't appear to have moved an inch since they impacted with the bottom.
 
...not to mention that water carafe seen on a washstand inside the wreck during "Ghosts of the Abyss". How that didn't become dislodged during the capsizing and subsequent earthquake, I don't know. Sheesh, these pesky underwater dynamics eh.

Paul

 
Samuel Halpern: Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 10:19 pm:
quote:

Yes it would be interesting to find a professional mariner that would conclude as you do.
Before publishing my book:The Sinking of The Titanic: an Ice Pilot’s Perspective, I found many professional mariners , who concluded as I did. Some are listed in the acknowledgments.

Your article may be impressive to non mariners inexperienced in ship handling and ice navigation. It is, however, just a fantastic account based on the fantasy that Titanic collided with iceberg, an impossible scenario under the circumstances presented by the evidence, nautical knowledge, and history.
quote:

The collision sequence, derived by taking into account the known turning characteristics of the ship and its speed of approach, is shown in the animation sequence below...As seen in the animation above, the Titanic was turning to starboard soon after striking the berg under port helm. The ship also started to slow as the engines came to a stop and then were backed for a short time to take the way off the ship.
Your depictions are not Marine Simulations. It is just animation sequence which defies the nautical evidence and hydrodynamics of ships’ behavior underway, especially with ice contact.(analogous to” the cow jumping over the moon").
quote:

Somewhere during the starboard turn the helm was steadied up. If a specific direction was not ordered, the helmsman, Robert Hichens, would have probably steadied the ship’s head onto one of the points on the compass which was directly in front of him.
ON A BRITISH OCEAN LINER IN 1912? An armchair assumption ,which can only draw derisive comments from professional mariners.​
 
Michael Standart: Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 3:55 pm:

quote:

Adding a naval architect to the mix...to deal with the hull's breakup of course...would also be a nice touch.

Before publishing my book, I did just that!
Why don't you peruse the evidence of Naval Architect Edward Wilding and the report of Naval Architects C. Hackett and J. G. Bedford?​
 
Hello Captain Collins,

From what I quickly read, and relay here (hopefully without too many serious errors), the November 18 1929 Laurentian Slope Earthquake and South Shore Disaster measured 7.2 on the Richter Scale - Burin Peninsula to the north was hit hard 2 1/2 hours after the quake with 3 pulses of water reaching from 2 to 7 meters with a maximum perhaps 3 times that in some of the narrower bays. Approximately twenty seven people lost their lives. The quake could be felt in New York and a tsunami was recorded along the East Coast as far south as South Carolina and across the Atlantic in Portugal. The Canadian coast sustained damage along 48 km of shoreline. There was a displacement of approximately 200 cubic km of material in the Laurentian Slope and 12 or 13 transatlantic cables were parted (though none by 13 miles..). It has been estimated that the speed attained by suspended underwater sediment was reduced to 14 mph when and where the last cable broke, about 295 miles downslope (south) from the shelf. The time of the breaks is known - 8 nearest the epicenter broke suddenly and the rest at a slowing rate. The epicenter of the quake was at 44° 69' N 56° 00' W - a distance of 687.1242 nm from where the bow section is now (and was before then). The wreck speaks for itself it many ways; one might not expect such a localized break but perhaps a more widespread disturbance from a quake related incident. And the dispersion of the lighter items, such as the teacup on the boiler, does not suggest quake activity to me. Many have mentioned several points about the boilers - what do you say? How did they get where they are? Does this wrecksite appear disturbed to you since 1912 and if so, how?

I would think a 14 mph sediment laden turbidity current can be very, very powerful indeed, but is there evidence of turbidite deposits or Bouma Sequences in the region where the wreck itself rests? Is this location "protected" or hidden by geological features as is often said? It has been stated the 1929 earthquake/slope collapse triggered a turbidity current spreading the finer deposits as far as 500 miles away from the toe of the landslide over a vast area of the Atlantic in excess of 100,000 miles. The walls of the Laurentian Fan were scoured by the turbidity current, and suggest a height of about 300 meters or more. This wave of mud, sand and pebble size material was actually started by slope failure and not the quake itself.
What could a 14 mph turbidity current do to the Titanic (assuming an unbroken liner etc.. neutral buoyancy etc.. 13 miles drift. and resting upright I assume....etc..) with her displacement of approximately 52,310 tons along with the 117,239,444 pounds of water filling her? How might this be calculated? What kind of forces would be exerted? Does the wreck site and its location/dispersion support any of this? If I read correctly this shock/quake wave would have hit the last cable some 13 hours and 17 minutes after the actual quake. It seems the turbidity current lasted for between 4 and 11 hours. Could a sustained 14 mph turbidity current break Titanic in roughly two and deposit those sections a half mile apart - both upright - while leaving the both lighter and heavier items relatively close by? If there were a steadily slowing current flowing for many hours from the epicenter (a known point), would this not result in the lighter objects coming to rest (lightest = furthest) in a recognizable dispersal pattern away from the source of the quake? I am getting way out "of my depth", so please excuse any errors - logical or factual. I'd guess that if Titanic were hit by this current the result would be much less Titanic spread out over way more area. The most relevant connection I currently see between the Titanic and this seismographic event is that the Olympic was in the area at the time and shook for 2 minutes.

Can you give us a "simple" explanation of your scenario/position for those trying to understand it? I posted this once before and post it again in the hope you might respond. Again, pardon what must be several errors, but no one seems to discussing your theory and I'd like to see your explanation of it.

Best,
Eric Longo
 
>>Why don't you peruse the evidence of Naval Architect Edward Wilding and the report of Naval Architects C. Hackett and J. G. Bedford?<<

I have. None of them support your base premise and none of them even speak to earthquakes moving the wreck. Further, drop tank tests carried out completely refute any notion that the wreck sank in the manner you described.
 
>>Perusing their information from the perspective of a professional mariner I beg to differ!<<

Beg to differ all you want, I've read their material and they don't. Asserting otherwise won't make it so.

Bedford and Hackett for example don't address plate tectonics and what they discuss doesn't speak to pack ice. It deals with the damage caused by an iceberg.

Ditto for Wilding to whom the question of interaction with a iceberg was a given.
 
quote:

...no one seems to discussing your theory and I'd like to see your explanation of it.

The explanation in my book was gleaned from consultation with Naval Architects,Oceanographer, hydrographer,experience mariners and Dupont, Frederic, Hannah, Charles and Wright. Daniel, 2006: "Model investigation of the Slope Water, north of the Gulf Stream". Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 33, L05604., doi: 10.1029/2005GL025321, 2006.​
 
Back
Top