Cyril Evans and his wireless

[Julian Atkins]

Hi Robert,

Your above response is exactly why a common sense approach is required!

We know from Evans' USA testimony he was friendly with Groves, who would pop into the Marconi cabin regularly late at night (after midnight), and he was also friendly with Gibson and Gill. Evans' cabin - if it was the former Pursers cabin adjacent to the former mail room now Marconi room as suggested by Harland was pretty much the centre of things on the morning of the 15th April despite, via Balfour, Evans being over excited and jamming the airwaves with chatter with the Frankfurt, plus sending the odd nuggets of gold recorded by Durrant on The Mount Temple plus a few others such as the Captains of the Virginian and the Birma.

What you pose in January 2019 as to why Evans was not woken up early on during the night was posed in 1912 to Captain Lord at the British Inquiry.

Far too late here and very cold in the UK, so off to bed!

Cheers,

Julian

 

[Samuel Halpern]

What you pose in January 2019 as to why Evans was not woken up early on during the night was posed in 1912 to Captain Lord at the British Inquiry.

7094. But as a mere matter of precaution, when you were in doubt and left word that someone was to come down to your cabin and give you a message, would not it have been a proper thing to have tried the experiment [to wake the wireless operator and find out what was really going on] ? - [Lord] Well, I was waiting for further information. I had a responsible officer on the bridge who was finding this out for me.
7095. At all events, having your Marconi apparatus it would have been no trouble whatever? - None whatever.
7096. To have got your operator to come to his room? - He was in his room.
7097. And he could have spoken this vessel? - If she had had.
7098. If you had done this you would have found out whether she had wireless? - Very likely. If she had had it we would have got her.
7099. If she had had it you could have ascertained directly in what trouble she was when she sent up the rockets? - Yes.

Lord's reaction to Stone's report by speaking tube that this steamer sent up rockets was to have Stone continue to call this steamer up by Morse lamp to find out her name, which for the last hour or more, had not responded to any of their attempts to communicate by Morse lamp. At one point, Lord even suggested to the inquiry that this steamer may not have had a Morse lamp by which to reply. His so called responsible officer thought that if his Captain didn't want to bother the wireless operator, then why should he, assuming the thought even crossed his mind in the first place? Stone was a real nitwit, described by Groves as a stolid, unimaginative type who possessed little self confidence.

7853. If you try, you will succeed. What did you think these rockets were going up at intervals of three or four minutes for? - [Stone] I just took them as white rockets, and informed the master and left him to judge.
7854. Do you mean to say you did not think for yourself? I thought you told us just now that you did think. - [No Answer.]
7855. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) You know they were not being sent up for fun, were they? - No.

 

[Mike Spooner]

Hi Julian,
As a Solicitor you have a better understanding of what happen in a court room. As my is only jury service many years ago now. It was an eye opener certainly a surprised how the court case is conducted.
Were those very clever smart intelligent barristers knew the knack of putting forward difficult questions to be answered. If the reply was not they wanted. They have that hesitation in think mode before asking the next question. Half the time is the same question but said in a different format. This is not your ever day conversation and a special skill for court cases. I have relative who deals with court cases as his profession. For legal reason he does not want his name mention.
He ask me want it is like in a jury room? As he never had that opportunity. I think he was a bit taken back by my reply. As I remember one case we as the jury thought one barrister was just too clever for own words. To the point we needed an Oxford dictionary to understand what hell he was talking about, and treated us if we no more the local village idiots. Needless to say he lost the case!
A Judge in layman terms is the referee that fair justice for prosecution and defence. We had another case were a young Lady barrister had to face dressing down from the Judge and if you did not change your way of cross examine, I shall ask to leave the court room! After adjourned for lunch the young lady had been replaced by a older barrister!
Now want has this got to do with the UK inquiry for Titanic?
The 72 old Judge Lord Mersey did give fair justice for the defence?
Were they could not afford a top line barrister as the prosecution had one! The bench line up for prosecution was formidable and paid by the Government to represent them! You mention a 12 man jury? Was that included in the inquiry? Nope. This is why I believe the inquiry was a one sided affair.
A Jude a well respected intelligence man comes out with is conclusion that Captain Lord ship less than miles away could have pushed through the ice and so have come to the assistance of the TITANIC. HAD SHE DONE SO SHE MIGHT HAVE SAVED MANY IF NOT ALL OF THE ( MORE THAN 1500 LIVES LOST! Yet Lord was not allowed to defend himself on such an outrageous statement and they made dam sure no re-hearing was allowed too! How can you call that is fair justice? Just remember Lord is an human and NOT A ROBOT. That must of been utter devastated to the poor man been held responsible for all those lost of lives. I cannot think of one court case even when they are guilty, at least they still get a fair hearing.
Even Captain Schettino Francesco of Costa Concordia in 2012, guilty as they come still got a fair hearing!
I rest my case for fair justice!
Mike.

 

[Julian Atkins]

Hi Mike,

Re your above post, I don't consider it relevant to this thread, though they are all matters worthy of debate! Perhaps a new thread to be started by yourself?

Cheers,

Julian

 

[Julian Atkins]

His so called responsible officer [Stone] thought that if his Captain didn't want to bother the wireless operator, then why should he, assuming the thought even crossed his mind in the first place?

Hi Sam,

I have added Stone's name to the above just for the sack of clarity when quoting part of your post 92.

As you know, I consider it possible that Captain Lord deliberately avoided being provided with any clear information that night with the intention of consequently NOT having to make any decision that would have required him move his vessel during the night and partly within/within the ice field.

The only sort of information that would have got him into action would be if another ship was coming too close to The Californian.

There is no evidence that Captain Lord intimated to Stone that he did not want Evans to be called, other than what we can indirectly infer from his suggesting continuing with the futile task of morsing the other ship - which I think we both agree had been pointless, and continued to be pointless and futile.

The available evidence is that Stone never questioned this, or suggested that Evans be woken up.

However, and most interestingly, there was one person who did wake up Evans! And that of course was Groves!

There is a sort of implied bit of 'one -upmanship' in Groves waking up Evans, as if he implied at the British Inquiry he woke up Evans, whereas Stone and Captain Lord did not! And the timing is also significant, though ultimately Groves waking up Evans was as pointless and futile as Stone and Captain Lord failing to wake him up later on.

There is an obvious and very recent parallel with the Grenfell Tower Inquiry, and the various London Fire Brigade Incident Commanders failing for a period of some 1 hour 30 minutes to change the 'stay put' policy for residents and instead evacuate residents. Though this was a very dynamic incident, whereas things on The Californian were not at all dynamic that night.

Stone's character is pretty much exemplified (for me) as to what actions he took when he saw the Carpathia firing rockets much later on that night and within an hour of daylight dawning. He misses the first rocket that Gibson sees 'over the weather cloth' but is aware of it because he knows Gibson has seen it because Gibson has reported it to him, and sees 2 further rockets fired seen some considerable distance away. Earlier he had at 2.40am quite pointlessly whistled down to Captain Lord and via his own account woken up or disturbed Captain Lord yet again. Yet when later 3 of the Carpathia's rockets were seen fired on the horizon, he does nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[N. D. Risener]

Even ANTR goofed on the actor portraying Cyril Evans.....IMO he was really much younger than that actor.

Hello Robert. I'm going to go slightly off the thread topic with a comment. I'll try to minimize the departure.

I've often thought to myself, "If you're making a movie about the (American) Civil War the actor who plays President Lincoln has to look like Lincoln. But the actor who plays General McClellan can look like himself." The reason is obvious. Most people, including the audience, are well aware of what Lincoln looked like and they expect to see that image on the screen. But hardly anyone would recognize a picture of the actual McClellan and would therefore never notice the difference if the actor looked nothing like the real person. I'm using McClellan as an example. There were many other not so famous or prominent characters from that time period who could have been mentioned.

No movie can afford to seek out a cast in which all historical characters are portrayed by actors who resemble them. It's not a goof, it's a practical necessity of movie making. They just do it when, as with Lincoln, they have to.

 

[Julian Atkins]

I throw this in somewhat flippantly in respect of the above post.

Geoffrey Bayldon, who played the part of Cyril Evans in ANTR, was 38 at the time he portrayed Evans in the film. Bayldon appeared quite youthful to me, so never an issue portraying the 20 year old Evans. No resemblance of course to the be-speckled nerdy Evans.

Neither did the character who played Stone in ANTR (Harold Siddons) have any resemblance to the short fat Herbert Stone with a moustache! And no Devon accent/drawl - instead upper class clipped 'BBC' type pronunciation.

Captain Lord and Rostron would also have had a twang of a Lancashire/Bolton accent - not exactly George Formby or Fred Dibnah - but not the clipped BBC type pronunciation of the 1950s.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[Robert T. Paige]

This may be somewhat flippant, too, but I think one person's idea of how an actor should look like the real person is more or less just what one person's opinions of how they imagine they should look.

These are some which stand out in my opinion.
Captain Smith - Bernard Hill
Franklin D. Roosevelt - Edward Herrmann
Sherlock Holmes - Jeremy Brett

 

[M.A.S.]

>>I believe that, given your hour estimate, some people could have lasted long enough to be fished out.<<

Keep in mind that the water temperature was known to be a nice balmy 28°F. In conditions like that, most people are either dead within 15 minutes or so close to it that the difference isn't worth mentioning.

>>I guess that I am fishing for a distance of separation at the time of the first rocket sighting.<<

There's no hard and fast answer out there which satisfies everybody I'm afraid and it's not all that helpful that some of the best known commentators have had something of an agenda. The most balanced website I've seen so far which, among other things, deals with the navigation problems is All At Sea With Dave Gittins.

I kept wondering about why below-freezing water wasn't frozen, so I looked it up, and apparently salt water freezes at a lower temp: When the Titanic sank the sea temperature was -2C. Why wasn't the water frozen? - Blue Sky Questions. Probably all of y'all already knew that.

 

[M.A.S.]

p.s. Maybe I've seen too many Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock, and MONK episodes, and read too much historical fiction about the Titanic, but the thought came to me -- what if Cyril Evans only "shut up" but didn't shut down the Californian's wireless operating system? What if he stayed on there and knew of all the Titanic's distress calls while sinking? Would there be any indication whether or not he was still there, other than if he responded, or taking him at his word that he had shut it down for the night? I know there's testimony from his crew that he had gone to sleep for the night, but they could be covering for him after they got back, whether or not they knew what he knew at the time. Maybe they all took some kind of creepy satisfaction in knowing that the spectacular, glamorous, "unsinkable" Titanic was sinking, after she foolishly took no heed of the Californian's ice warnings (and many other warnings)! Perhaps as the Titanic struck the iceberg, the Californian struck the icy vice of Envy? I looked up "envy"; seems possible to me:

• "Envy can lead to the worst crimes." (Gen 4:3-7; 1 Kings 21:1-29, CCC 2538).
• "Envy represents a form of sadness and therefore a refusal of charity." (CCC 2540).
• "From envy are born hatred, detraction, calumny, joy caused by the misfortune of a neighbor, and displeasure caused by his prosperity." (St. Gregory the Great, CCC 2539).
• "The baptized person combats envy through good-will, humility, and abandonment to the providence of God." (CCC 2554).

Envy is forgivable when one repents, but still, I sincerely hope that Evans was not that creepy. I want to see the best in him. Maybe he was just obeying orders: first his captain's, and then Harold's. Feeling he had done his duty and had nothing else to do, he went to bed. Or maybe he woke up and became aware of the sinking, but a series of unfortunate events dissuaded him from reconnecting to Titanic's communication lines. Maybe he had the best of intentions, or maybe he had mixed motives or was confused. Maybe their ship really was stuck in an ice field and they didn't feel safe trying to break out of it. I haven't read all the "true stories" or other speculative opinions documented about the Californian ship to make up my mind about it. I don't even have to figure it out, I'm not a lawyer or professional historian. I'm at liberty to simply let their memories rest in peace, and perhaps say a little prayer for their souls/ descendants. Let it be a lesson to me -- to avoid the desire for excessive wealth, and to avoid envy of such luxuries. To be grateful for all my blessings, and to help where I can. My challenge is to aim for that "good-will, humility, and abandonment to the providence of God."

 

[M.A.S.]

Biggest mystery of the whole Californian episode-why didn't one of the officers just go to Evans' cabin, wake him up and put him on his set to find out what was going on? I really don't blame Captain Lord for the Californian affair, but the conduct of his junior officers just seems to scream incompetence! Remarks like "a ship is not going to be firing rockets at night for nothing" seem all the more idiotic when all such speculation could of been resolved by using the technology at hand. If the officers didn't want to take the initiative themselves, they should have asked Lord for permission since they were barging in on him every half hour anyway! Were the Californian's officers that bottom-of-the-barrel that it didn't even occur to one of them to do this?

I feel like the Californian should have found the rockets suspicious and gone to check on the Titanic (or at least reconnected first via the wireless operator system!), even if the rockets weren't fired at the proper one-minute intervals that indicate they're a call for help (according to this: When Is A Rocket Called A Distress Signal Or Just A Flash In The Sky? - Titanic Historical Society). They should have sent a wireless message to ask what their rockets meant, if they weren't sure. If they had any imagination, they could have assumed that perhaps the rocket firing guy didn't know what he was doing, and wasn't getting the distress message across.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

even if the rockets weren't fired at the proper one-minute intervals that indicate they're a call for help

That is a pretty lame excuse invented by supporters of Capt. Stanley Lord. Furthermore, it is provenly false. The rules concerning the use of rockets throwing stars said that "rockets or shells, throwing stars of any colour or description, fired one at a time, at short intervals.” The rules then, or now, did not specify how short these intervals had to be. The 1 minute interval business had to do only with the firing of guns or cannons. If go through all the inquiry hearings you not find anywhere where the length of the rocket firing intervals ever came up as being not short enough. Not one single instance. It's a modern day excuse to shift blame onto Capt. Smith and away from the ineptitude of Capt. Lord and his crew.

 

[M.A.S.]

I have no idea.

 

[Julian Atkins]

I have no idea.

Evans turned in at around 11.35pm Californian time. He switched off the generator to his set, and apparently let his clockwork mechanism for receiving messages to wind down.

Captain Lord went past Evans' cabin at 11.45pm and all the lights were out. Groves went into Evans' cabin around 12.15, 30 minutes later, woke up Evans who was by then fast asleep in his bed.

Groves claimed (on oath) in his testimony at the British Inquiry that he then put the headset to his ears but heard nothing about the same time that Titanic was transmitting it's first incorrect CQD (the Captain Smith position).

Evans went back to sleep and Groves confirmed this.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Evans did nothing other than sleep until woken up by Stewart at around 5.10am on the morning of the 15th, using Durrant's time of 5.11am on The Mount Temple that was 4 minutes ahead of ship's time compared to The Californian so 5.15am on The Californian when The Californian (Evans) sent out it's CQ and Durrant replied.

As I have attempted to make clear, usually Evans would not have turned in until later. So, Groves was expecting him to be still awake at the start of The Middle Watch at Midnight. But like some hand of fate for the reputation of Captain Lord, and some Shakespearian tragedy and irony, Evans, perhaps because the vessel was stopped for the night, was fast asleep.

It is odd that Evans never made any published comment on the events of that night after the British Inquiry. We can see from Groves' letters to Walter Lord in the mid 1950s that he felt considerable guilt (that I would suggest is misplaced and perhaps in lots of details fanciful) but it is nevertheless there and on the record and in his 'Middle Watch' essay, and much else besides.

 

[ScottyBK]

p.s. Maybe I've seen too many Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock, and MONK episodes, and read too much historical fiction about the Titanic, but the thought came to me -- what if Cyril Evans only "shut up" but didn't shut down the Californian's wireless operating system? What if he stayed on there and knew of all the Titanic's distress calls while sinking? Would there be any indication whether or not he was still there, other than if he responded, or taking him at his word that he had shut it down for the night? I know there's testimony from his crew that he had gone to sleep for the night, but they could be covering for him after they got back, whether or not they knew what he knew at the time. Maybe they all took some kind of creepy satisfaction in knowing that the spectacular, glamorous, "unsinkable" Titanic was sinking, after she foolishly took no heed of the Californian's ice warnings (and many other warnings)! Perhaps as the Titanic struck the iceberg, the Californian struck the icy vice of Envy? I looked up "envy"; seems possible to me:

• "Envy can lead to the worst crimes." (Gen 4:3-7; 1 Kings 21:1-29, CCC 2538).
• "Envy represents a form of sadness and therefore a refusal of charity." (CCC 2540).
• "From envy are born hatred, detraction, calumny, joy caused by the misfortune of a neighbor, and displeasure caused by his prosperity." (St. Gregory the Great, CCC 2539).
• "The baptized person combats envy through good-will, humility, and abandonment to the providence of God." (CCC 2554).

Envy is forgivable when one repents, but still, I sincerely hope that Evans was not that creepy. I want to see the best in him. Maybe he was just obeying orders: first his captain's, and then Harold's. Feeling he had done his duty and had nothing else to do, he went to bed. Or maybe he woke up and became aware of the sinking, but a series of unfortunate events dissuaded him from reconnecting to Titanic's communication lines. Maybe he had the best of intentions, or maybe he had mixed motives or was confused. Maybe their ship really was stuck in an ice field and they didn't feel safe trying to break out of it. I haven't read all the "true stories" or other speculative opinions documented about the Californian ship to make up my mind about it. I don't even have to figure it out, I'm not a lawyer or professional historian. I'm at liberty to simply let their memories rest in peace, and perhaps say a little prayer for their souls/ descendants. Let it be a lesson to me -- to avoid the desire for excessive wealth, and to avoid envy of such luxuries. To be grateful for all my blessings, and to help where I can. My challenge is to aim for that "good-will, humility, and abandonment to the providence of God."

I like your theory and think it has a lot of merit and makes sense. It seems likely a lot of other captains were probably jealous of Smith eating filet mignon with millionaires, smoking expensive cigars, getting his own personal bathtub, etc. While guys like Lord were on some slowpoke rust bucket eating cold beans on toast hauling lumber or whatever.

Maybe they were fed up with the Godlike cult of personality as the "Millionaire's Captain" that had developed around Smith and secretly relished his good luck finally running out.

I personally always thought giving Smith his own bathtub was really taking things to extremes, and I think indirectly that played a big role in the disaster. Along with letting him design his own menus and host dinner parties and cancel boat drills etc. It seems that EJ Smith was a victim of his own success in the end, it all just went to his head. If it was today, they would have made him cruise director and "captain emeritus" and left nautical duties to the younger, more capable guys like Lightoller.