Shelley Dziedzic
Member
For REALLY beautiful pix of little Dorothy- and a doll of her when she was a model run right over to
http://www.justalice.com/dor.htm
SO pretty-love that HAT!
http://www.justalice.com/dor.htm
SO pretty-love that HAT!
Dorothy Gibson
- Thread starter Glenda Bowling
- Start date
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- dorothy gibson
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
The Dorothy Gibson doll portrayed above with the exquisite clothing and attention to details is created by Alice Leverett-please visit that site above, then click on the HOME link to see her story, other vintage dolls and articles - These dolls go in the 800-900 dollar range. Dorothy is FABULOUS! Now if she would consider doing Rita Jolivet! Barbie-take a back seat!
Jim Kalafus
Member
For a good account of Saved From The Titanic, try to find a copy of Lost Films: Important Movies That Disappeared, by Frank Thompson. No stills, but a detailed synosis, some reviews and a lot of historical background. From time to time Eclair films of that vintage come up for sale in The Big Reel and other collector magazines, and I keep hoping at some point to find a copy of Saved From The Titanic. A lot of times "lost" films are being held by people who don't know that what they have is either "lost" or desirable, so there is a slender outside chance that maybe, possibly one has survived. Probably not, but that is one of the things which keeps an obsessive collector such as myself going. Of course, there is the harsh double reality of Nitrate film AND the fact that Titanic has been collectable since about 1955, but who knows?
PS- SHELLEY- After Rita Jolivet, how about Mrs Faber?
PS- SHELLEY- After Rita Jolivet, how about Mrs Faber?
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Jim,
I'm with you on the hope that "Saved from the Titanic" will turn up but I would settle for one of the other dozen or so films she made.
It's difficult to assess Dorothy's appeal without studying her work so I'd be thrilled to be able to see her in any of the movies she made just to find out what sort of screen persona she had. From the few reviews I've read - one especially for "The Masqueraders" in "Billboard" magazine - it would appear that, despite her youth, she wasn't relegated to playing the ingenue. I tend to think she might have excelled at playing the modern, sports-loving, career girl.
Of course, since Dorothy retired after the hit she made out of "Saved," it is entirely possible that audiences didn't have time to acquaint themselves thoroughly enough with her talent and personality for her to have registered any identifiable presence.
I suspect that she was a very versatile and capable actress who, had she persevered in her work, might have become one of the top stars of the silent period.
As it is, her popularity was so brief she's now an enigma and until some of her films turn up we won't be able to evaluate what impact her fleeting image may have had on audiences of her day.
Randy
I'm with you on the hope that "Saved from the Titanic" will turn up but I would settle for one of the other dozen or so films she made.
It's difficult to assess Dorothy's appeal without studying her work so I'd be thrilled to be able to see her in any of the movies she made just to find out what sort of screen persona she had. From the few reviews I've read - one especially for "The Masqueraders" in "Billboard" magazine - it would appear that, despite her youth, she wasn't relegated to playing the ingenue. I tend to think she might have excelled at playing the modern, sports-loving, career girl.
Of course, since Dorothy retired after the hit she made out of "Saved," it is entirely possible that audiences didn't have time to acquaint themselves thoroughly enough with her talent and personality for her to have registered any identifiable presence.
I suspect that she was a very versatile and capable actress who, had she persevered in her work, might have become one of the top stars of the silent period.
As it is, her popularity was so brief she's now an enigma and until some of her films turn up we won't be able to evaluate what impact her fleeting image may have had on audiences of her day.
Randy
Jim Kalafus
Member
RANDY- I would be willing to bet that at least ONE of her films has survived. A surprising number of films by stars whose entire catalogues were supposedly lost (like Mary Miles Minter, of homicidal mother fame) surfaced during the 1980s, but the thing is, being that Dorothy Gibson is TOTALLY unknown outside of Titanic circles, the discovery of one of her works would not rate a mention in the trade press UNLESS the person who found the film was a Titanic buff. A good idea MIGHT be to raise awareness of Dorothy by running a (frankly) exploitative article about her Titanic connection in one of the silent film collector magazines, so that people who ordinarily wouldn't know about her would seek her out......as happened with Minter after the publication of A Cast Of Killers. Of course, then you would have to deal with the torment I know so well of dealing with "eccentric" collectors who let you know that they have the film, prove it to you by allowing you to read the title card through a loop, and then don't let you watch "their treasure." A curse upon them.......
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
Well shoot- what do you think of that GORGEOUS DOLL you guys!? Look at the detail and those clothes!! Dorothy would be thrilled. Amazon.com does have the audio CD of Saved From the Titanic.
Jim Kalafus
Member
Shelley: How did they make an audio CD from a silent film? Have you heard it? I am interested.
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
Darn good question unless it is a reading of the script- go to
http://www.execpc.com/~reva/html3h.htm
then click on the film which will take you to the international data base that offers on the left buttons, items for sale.
http://www.execpc.com/~reva/html3h.htm
then click on the film which will take you to the international data base that offers on the left buttons, items for sale.
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Shell,
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I'd seen the Dorothy doll site some time back and I do think they are lovely. But that little sprite in me that is so critical when it comes to absolute authenticity in clothes has to give vent, so here goes:
The 1905 doll is quite faithful to the styles of the moment but I would bet that Dorothy was not working as a model for Fisher that early. She would have been only 14 or 15. But I wouldn't know. Personally I'm skeptical about the Fisher connection. I realize that Geller's book says she was a model for him but what is that based on? Did Harrison Fisher credit Dorothy as one of his models in a biography or article? Did Dorothy claim it in an interview? Where did that info come from, I'm curious? The pictures I've seen purporting to be Dorothy don't look enough like her in my estimation.
The 1912 doll is not authentically dressed at all, I'm sorry to say. First off, the hat is all wrong - it's too high off her head. Crowns were fuller and worn closer down over the head. Hats also tended to be flatter at the top and broader brimmed. The high collar effect would have been very passe for a young woman. And lastly, and most crucially, the skirt is flared out in an A-line which would have been very unfashionable in 1912, at least for a dressy afternoon costume like the one portrayed. Wider-hemmed skirts were permissible for sports dresses and informal walking suits but not for any formal reception, tea, or evening gowns. They all were straight to tapered.
Still I'd like to own one of the dolls for display, only I'd have to re-design the clothes on the 1912 one!!!
I'm sure the doll-maker would hate me!
Randy
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I'd seen the Dorothy doll site some time back and I do think they are lovely. But that little sprite in me that is so critical when it comes to absolute authenticity in clothes has to give vent, so here goes:
The 1905 doll is quite faithful to the styles of the moment but I would bet that Dorothy was not working as a model for Fisher that early. She would have been only 14 or 15. But I wouldn't know. Personally I'm skeptical about the Fisher connection. I realize that Geller's book says she was a model for him but what is that based on? Did Harrison Fisher credit Dorothy as one of his models in a biography or article? Did Dorothy claim it in an interview? Where did that info come from, I'm curious? The pictures I've seen purporting to be Dorothy don't look enough like her in my estimation.
The 1912 doll is not authentically dressed at all, I'm sorry to say. First off, the hat is all wrong - it's too high off her head. Crowns were fuller and worn closer down over the head. Hats also tended to be flatter at the top and broader brimmed. The high collar effect would have been very passe for a young woman. And lastly, and most crucially, the skirt is flared out in an A-line which would have been very unfashionable in 1912, at least for a dressy afternoon costume like the one portrayed. Wider-hemmed skirts were permissible for sports dresses and informal walking suits but not for any formal reception, tea, or evening gowns. They all were straight to tapered.
Still I'd like to own one of the dolls for display, only I'd have to re-design the clothes on the 1912 one!!!
I'm sure the doll-maker would hate me!
Randy
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Jim,
I feel you are probably right that one of Dorothy Gibson's films may turn up. And that it may take an article for one of the e-zines or other silent movie fan journals to get the collectors (and some of the archives to take a second look).
I was told not too long ago that British Film Institute and the Library of Congress both have a number of old Eclair films but at the time, looking only for Lucile stuff, I didn't think to pursue that. I'd forgotten Dorothy was Eclair's first American star.
Anyway, last week I sent off a request to LOC for a search on some of Dorothy's titles. I may as well mention that the reason is I've been working on a piece on Dorothy in off-moments lately but I'm at a halt for the moment because some essential info is "classified," so to speak, and as I do not want to infringe on my friend Phil Gowan's rightful territory, I am holding off. As he's alluded to here, Phil's done some astounding research on the Gibsons. I'm privy to some of the stuff but my lips are sealed. Phil is with good reason guarding this info!
However my focus is on Dorothy and her film work rather than on her complicated, though fascinating, private entanglements.
My working title is "Missing Dorothy: The Lost Films of Eclair Studios Star Dorothy Gibson." I'm gearing it towards the journal "Griffithiana." But who knows if it will come about.
If something turns up in the vaults, I'll have to change the title for one thing - something I'll be glad to do!
All my best,
Randy
I feel you are probably right that one of Dorothy Gibson's films may turn up. And that it may take an article for one of the e-zines or other silent movie fan journals to get the collectors (and some of the archives to take a second look).
I was told not too long ago that British Film Institute and the Library of Congress both have a number of old Eclair films but at the time, looking only for Lucile stuff, I didn't think to pursue that. I'd forgotten Dorothy was Eclair's first American star.
Anyway, last week I sent off a request to LOC for a search on some of Dorothy's titles. I may as well mention that the reason is I've been working on a piece on Dorothy in off-moments lately but I'm at a halt for the moment because some essential info is "classified," so to speak, and as I do not want to infringe on my friend Phil Gowan's rightful territory, I am holding off. As he's alluded to here, Phil's done some astounding research on the Gibsons. I'm privy to some of the stuff but my lips are sealed. Phil is with good reason guarding this info!
However my focus is on Dorothy and her film work rather than on her complicated, though fascinating, private entanglements.
My working title is "Missing Dorothy: The Lost Films of Eclair Studios Star Dorothy Gibson." I'm gearing it towards the journal "Griffithiana." But who knows if it will come about.
If something turns up in the vaults, I'll have to change the title for one thing - something I'll be glad to do!
All my best,
Randy
Jim Kalafus
Member
Randy- Good to hear about that article, and I am hoping that it reaches the right collector!
About the Library of Congress- I am sure that you already know about how they will make a video copy of any pre-1923 film (for an exhorbitant fee) for the serious researcher. If one turns up, let me know.
ABOUT SAVED FROM THE TITANIC: My own, perhaps arguable, insight: I have the feeling that the only thing of interest in it was probably Dorothy's costume which, she said, she actually wore while escaping from the Titanic. The Titanic was of sufficient interest that HAD Saved From...etc... been in the least bit worthwhile it would have been distributed on a "state's rights" basis to second run and small town theaters well beyond the War Years, as were many of the better Edison era films. The fact that the surviving prints were destroyed (supposedly) in a 1914 fire would indicate that TWO YEARS after the disaster the film had been shelved. It would be nice to learn that Saved From The Titanic had survived long enough to be transferred to Safety film stock, but I have the feeling that the quote about the "rediscovered" print of Janice Meredith the Marion Davies/WC Fields film ("It wasn't lost all of those years- it was hidden") will most likely be applicable to Saved....if it ever turns up.
CONCERNING THE DOLL- What I like about it is that it is FAIRLY close (by collector doll standards) to an excellent likeness, and gives one a better idea of Dorothy's "look" than do the photos of her which have seen print. Dorothy was not, to be honest, ideally photogenic, but then too Gloria Swanson and Pola Negri photographed "hard" and "mannish" respectively but filmed beautifully (unlike Mary Miles Minter who photographed remarkably well but "washed out" on screen) and it would be interesting to see her on film, just to see if she worked in that medium.
About the Library of Congress- I am sure that you already know about how they will make a video copy of any pre-1923 film (for an exhorbitant fee) for the serious researcher. If one turns up, let me know.
ABOUT SAVED FROM THE TITANIC: My own, perhaps arguable, insight: I have the feeling that the only thing of interest in it was probably Dorothy's costume which, she said, she actually wore while escaping from the Titanic. The Titanic was of sufficient interest that HAD Saved From...etc... been in the least bit worthwhile it would have been distributed on a "state's rights" basis to second run and small town theaters well beyond the War Years, as were many of the better Edison era films. The fact that the surviving prints were destroyed (supposedly) in a 1914 fire would indicate that TWO YEARS after the disaster the film had been shelved. It would be nice to learn that Saved From The Titanic had survived long enough to be transferred to Safety film stock, but I have the feeling that the quote about the "rediscovered" print of Janice Meredith the Marion Davies/WC Fields film ("It wasn't lost all of those years- it was hidden") will most likely be applicable to Saved....if it ever turns up.
CONCERNING THE DOLL- What I like about it is that it is FAIRLY close (by collector doll standards) to an excellent likeness, and gives one a better idea of Dorothy's "look" than do the photos of her which have seen print. Dorothy was not, to be honest, ideally photogenic, but then too Gloria Swanson and Pola Negri photographed "hard" and "mannish" respectively but filmed beautifully (unlike Mary Miles Minter who photographed remarkably well but "washed out" on screen) and it would be interesting to see her on film, just to see if she worked in that medium.
Phillip Gowan
RIP
James--you are right about her not being photogenic. I have a couple of later photos of her which look fairly good (one in particular is flattering) but as she aged she did look "hard" to use your terminology--and one of her younger photos that I have would even qualify for "unspeakable horror" category--I sent a scan of it to another Titanic buff who remarked "what happened--did a truck run over her?" Her last photo was taken about three months before she died--I have a copy of it--and there is little "softness" left in her appearance. But regardless, she was always a better looking woman than her mother--who ended up looking something like a puffed, venemous mushroom.
Regards,
Phil
Regards,
Phil
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
A venomous mushroom-oh Phil- may I never meet you without full war paint and corseted to a faretheewell! Well- Dorothy does have a certain Katie Couric kind of vivacity- especially pre-Jules. The outfit worn off the Titanic is frankly UGHsome. Nothing like Cameron's Rose! One of the 4 existing stills from Saved from the Titanic shows Dot in the mangey straight cut cloth coat- boxy and frumpy. Have been scanning Harrison Fisher ladies- and one or two bear a resemblance. Randolfo- I KNEW you would rise to the bait and critique the doll ensembles! The workmanship is exquisite though. Check out
http://members.xoom.com/pryderi92/operagloves/fisher.html
http://members.xoom.com/pryderi92/operagloves/fisher.html
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
The best silent film resources link I have found:
csse.morash.edu.au/~pringle/silent/faq/sites.html
Rita Jolivet is there and have not had time to surf them all.
csse.morash.edu.au/~pringle/silent/faq/sites.html
Rita Jolivet is there and have not had time to surf them all.
Jim Kalafus
Member
Phillip- You had me laughing out loud there! I hope that when you finally go public with the whole story of Dorothy and her mother you include the unspeakable horror shot. But, perhaps Dorothy had a vivacity; a "felicity of expression;" an inner fire- whatever- which made her beautiful in the flesh (and on film) which did not readily translate into still pictures. I have an ongoing interest in Silent Film Stage Mothers (a truly horrifying breed) and your description of Dorothy's mother fits the bill perfectly....I could probably draw a picture of her, never having seen a photograph, and register 80% accuracy, if not better. If one were to line up Charlotte Smith (Pickford) Charlotte Shelby (Minter) and Mrs Talmadge side by side one would swear that they were daughters of a not particularly attractive Amazon....I see Mrs. Gibson blending nicely. This may be priviledged communication at this point, but did Dorothy have an unnaturally close bond to her mother which drove most people away? Was her mother almost pathologically possessive? Was she the sole custodial parent? Were some of their adventures borderline larceneous? I ask because that seems to be the profile of the standard 1910-30 stage mother/daughter relationship.
