Electricity During Sinking

[Cam Houseman]

I agree pure water is a bad conductor of electricity and more experiments needed with salt water ,the lamps being illuminated below the water may just have been due to them being partially water tight and also lack of an earth path and also being low voltage . But interestingly is the reports of the lights going out then back on again just before Titanic sank , was someone still at the switchboard to reset the breakers at that final moments or were the generators coming off their beds due to the angle of the ship , the emergency generator was mounted just below the forth funnel so was the emergency circuits trying to cut in as the main circuits failed ? , so that gives food for thought.

Good point, Keith!
that could explain the lights survivors saw after the breakup? Or perhaps the lights just dying.

You know how when a light is hot, and you turn it off, it takes a minute to full lose the light? Maybe that happened

 

[Kyle Naber]

and I don't think someone like Lightoller would get his math wrong

The estimated 25° for the breakup would seem pretty extreme if you were in the water looking up at the raising poop deck. I think he really thought it was that high, but it most likely wasn’t.

The breakup most certainly would have happened before 60°.

 

[Steven Christian]

I agree pure water is a bad conductor of electricity and more experiments needed with salt water ,the lamps being illuminated below the water may just have been due to them being partially water tight and also lack of an earth path and also being low voltage . But interestingly is the reports of the lights going out then back on again just before Titanic sank , was someone still at the switchboard to reset the breakers at that final moments or were the generators coming off their beds due to the angle of the ship , the emergency generator was mounted just below the forth funnel so was the emergency circuits trying to cut in as the main circuits failed ? , so that gives food for thought.

Yes the electricians were reclosing the breakers as they tripped. There was no automatic reclosure on Titanics breakers. But at the end there were probably no circuits left to close back in. Could have been a few things...the generators coming loose, the feeders to the switchboard coming apart opening or shorting or they finally ran out of steam. But by then it was so late in the game it didn't really matter much at that point...only minutes till she went under.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Yes the electricians were reclosing the breakers as they tripped. There was no automatic reclosure on Titanics breakers. But at the end there were probably no circuits left to close back in. Could have been a few things...the generators coming loose, the feeders to the switchboard coming apart opening or shorting or they finally ran out of steam. But by then it was so late in the game it didn't really matter much at that point...only minutes till she went under.

hi steven, what does it mean when they "tripped"?

 

[Steven Christian]

hi steven, what does it mean when they "tripped"?

t means that breaker opened up. That opens and interrupts the circuit not allowing power on the circuit. A breaker is just a switch that opens when a parameter is met like too much current. There are different types. Most common like whats in your house panel is a mechanical device that detects instantaneous or timed over-current. You size them for the wire feeding the circuit. On Titanic like your house they are manually operated devices. Which means you have to re close it yourself when it trips (opens). That's what the brave (IMHO) electricians were doing the night Titanic sunk. On other systems they have automatic re-closure. Usually re-close 2 times before the 86 lock out relay keeps it open. But there was no need for that scheme on Titanic, even if they had them in those days.

 

[Cam Houseman]

t means that breaker opened up. That opens and interrupts the circuit not allowing power on the circuit. A breaker is just a switch that opens when a parameter is met like too much current. There are different types. Most common like whats in your house panel is a mechanical device that detects instantaneous or timed over-current. You size them for the wire feeding the circuit. On Titanic like your house they are manually operated devices. Which means you have to re close it yourself when it trips (opens). That's what the brave (IMHO) electricians were doing the night Titanic sunk. On other systems they have automatic re-closure. Usually re-close 2 times before the 86 lock out relay keeps it open. But there was no need for that scheme on Titanic, even if they had them in those days.

Ah, ok, thank you!

 

[Incony]

the principle is that as long as a circuit exists,and the generator supplies it - the load, a light - will light.. even at the point of break up.. if the generator is still turning, even running down, because its steam supply is broken, if it still turns and makes electricity.. and a circuit exists, with a lamp as a load... the lamp will light.. the circuit can break.. a cable is severed, and as it breaks, the ends momentarily reconnect, as they move its a moment in time, it is too short a time for anyone facing such a moment to react faster than electricity... which chooses its path to ground by any means.. The idea that the generator stopped instantly isnt known.. it might have been jammed in the breakup, it is possible. falling debris, whatever.. but until that moment when the generator and its circuits were incomplete... they were complete. even as the ship broke in two. i suspect the generator was still turning after the lights went out for the last time... why would one stop it on purpose in such a last moment, and even if one could stop it.. the time was not available.

 

[Steven Christian]

the principle is that as long as a circuit exists,and the generator supplies it - the load, a light - will light.. even at the point of break up.. if the generator is still turning, even running down, because its steam supply is broken, if it still turns and makes electricity.. and a circuit exists, with a lamp as a load... the lamp will light.. the circuit can break.. a cable is severed, and as it breaks, the ends momentarily reconnect, as they move its a moment in time, it is too short a time for anyone facing such a moment to react faster than electricity... which chooses its path to ground by any means.. The idea that the generator stopped instantly isnt known.. it might have been jammed in the breakup, it is possible. falling debris, whatever.. but until that moment when the generator and its circuits were incomplete... they were complete. even as the ship broke in two. i suspect the generator was still turning after the lights went out for the last time... why would one stop it on purpose in such a last moment, and even if one could stop it.. the time was not available.

Yes. Most of what were talking about here took place in the last few minutes of the ship. It's why I say the crew that stayed below to continue what they were doing were brave people because they had to know what was coming. When they were first resetting the breakers they might been able to blow off the fault on the circuit. Thats one of the purposes of automatic re-closure especially on large power systems. But at the end it was too much if there was even a circuit left to reclose in.

 

[Incony]

The only evidence, of the last moments of the electrical engineering room, are from the letter written by Alfred White Alfred White: Death in the Engine Rooms and the Stubborn Persistence of Light | Charles Pellegrino any written records, i.e service logs, were lost in the sinking, they would have shown the last hour meter timer recordings... attached to the generators, and if one of those could be seen , one could speculate the reading and the record as comparison.. since the timing could be calculated.. but i dont think even if one could find a timer, would one be able to say in certainty when it stopped.. its a neglected area of the Titanic, i think.. the timer tells one when it stopped turning. ? ok we know the time the titanic sank.. and that its possible even as the stern went under, the kerosene lamp on the stern may have still been lit.. is say may, because one cant be certain.. just like one cant be certain the exact moment in time the last electrical circuit failed, or the generator stopped... i suspect for anyone in the room at the moment of break up, the effect would be similar to a serious car accident as the structures broke up.. death by physical injury and sudden drowning. - i doubt anyone died from electrocution. and i doubt electrocution, because even at the time of break up , the generating room was still dry, those still in there were actually well insulated, leather gloves, leather footwear.. ceramic insulation, and good knowledge of the effect of DC electrocution. they were not going to grab hold of a circuit they knew was live, and risk, even then, loosing the last moments of light... and their own life in consequence..

 

[Steven Christian]

Thanks for that link. It was interesting to read. Haven't read much of his stuff but that article did affirm what I have always thought about Thomas Andrews..all around good guy. I don't know what safety gear was common for electricians in those days but I'm pretty sure the handles/devices to close the breakers in were insulated. And I believe what you said about the electricians knowing the hazards. In those days from what I've read they probably saw the effects first hand. Lots of accidents in that industry in the early days (linemen had a fatality rate of over 50% at one point I've read). As for DC...it grabs you hard when you get hung up on it. Unlike AC which is 60 hertz (U.S. standard) we referred to DC as 1 hertz. As in one hurts more than the other.

 

[Keith H]

I am just wondering if their were any battery's as a final back up for electrical failure to give essential lighting.

 

[Steven Christian]

I am just wondering if their were any battery's as a final back up for electrical failure to give essential lighting.

None for lighting that I've read about other than the batteries in the handheld flashlights some had. Batteries in those days weren't all that good and if they supplied the regular bulbs in the ship they would have needed a 100 volt battery bank.

 

[Keith H]

There is a mention of acid battery's in the post by Incony {four posts up) in the letter Alfred White ,Death in the engine rooms ,where these are mentioned as being for the light room and Marconi room .

 

[Steven Christian]

There is a mention of acid battery's in the post by Incony {four posts up) in the letter Alfred White ,Death in the engine rooms ,where these are mentioned as being for the light room and Marconi room .

That battery was for the back-up transmitter. I've never read where they tapped off that circuit for lights. There was also a small battery for the phone system. But again I've never read or seen a battery system for lights on the Titanic. Also on the Olympic class ships they did away with the battery for the master clock system finding the mechanical system was better for their application. Cheers.

 

[Incony]

of interest to me is the path Alfred White took to reach funnel four, its a complicated journey isn't it? i suppose he took maintenance ladderways, to be inside funnel four... but ive difficulty using images of the ships structure, in seeing the path he took to reach inside the funnel.. climb inside and exit at the external ladder top where he saw the ship begin to break in two. i sense that maintenance ladders was the route he took... but the exact location and path he took i cannot decide... images of the funnels in construction don't show internal ladders in funnel four, only the external ones, how he got from the electrical generating room to the funnel isn't clear.. i am supposing there was a clear route to the emergency dynamo room from the main generator room.. but that puts him outside the funnel, not inside it, and below deck, if he took that route why didn't he get out on deck? i would like to see a sketch of known ladder ways and location that show a possible route he took. to end up at the funnel top.