Factors That Could Have Prevented Sinking

Colour me a bit confused as well, but I think that Matt is speaking to doors and portholes being opened or left open which came level with the sea when everything else below filled up. With new points of ingress, this would have tended to speed things up in the same fashion that leaving the E-Deck portholes open on Britannic sped up her demise.

This, by the way, points to another problem that a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacks don't account for when calling for additional sectioning, watertight fittings and so on. Bluntly, even the protection of a warship is of little use if the crew doesn't use it, or even worse then useless if the crew is not, or cannot be trained to use it properly.

Merchent vessels don't have the time to train the way the military does so the best possible system for the merchent marine's needs is one that's as simple as possible.
 
Parks,

What I was saying about variables is that for Titanic in the bow port holes are in compartments # 2, 3, and 4 which is the three foreward cargo holds. If those portholes were left open on the Lower G-Deck they would allow more water to enter those three compartments and given the forepeak compartment would have been damaged itself along with Boiler room #6 and the coal bunker leaking in Boiler room #5, all that weight even with the bulkheads raised up would have allowed the portholes on F Deck above Boiler room #6 and 5. If those portholes were opened water would have been able to add to the rate of flooding in Boiler room #6 which was damaged badly to begin with, and Boiler room #5 which Fred Barrett said water was coming in as if through a firehose, which the pumps could handle and keep that compartment dry but with the port holes open on F deck above that compartment water would have been able to flood the lower decks and increase the rate of flood in that compartment. Eventually if enough port holes are open it would eventually bring D deck under. Im fairly sure port holes above Boiler room # 4, 3, 2, or 1 had the possibility of being open, most likely they wouldnt considering G deck had the post office, the mail baggage rooms and the third class open berths.

Titanic sank till water on the outside of her hull was at D deck just below the anchors. In this situation the D Deck gangway doors would be a good 3 to 4 feet (estimate) above the water line on the outside of the hull. In this situation with Titanic having say Bulkhead 4 and 5 (bulkheads infront of and behind Boiler room # 6) raised two decks higher in this situation if any of the port holes were left open on E deck by any of the passengers these port holes would have allowed water to flow into Titanic anywheres from the No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 compartments. These compartments would have all E deck port holes fully under or at least half way under the water line. This means that if passengers left their port holes open in this what if situation with titanic having some if not all bulkheads 2 decks higher, port holes left open would play a major role, would allow water to enter compartments that werent flooded and if for instance Boiler room #5 flooded faster than the pumps could handle and the weight would have been enough to pull the D Deck gangway doors low enough that water could start flowing into Titanic on D Deck. (if the bulkheads were raised two decks higher at bulkhead # 6 that would have put the water tight bulkhead on D deck just behind the aft most D Deck gangway door. Wouldnt have been possible to do this considering the grand staircase and elevators would have been in the way and the design would have to really be changed. Back to the situation in this what if, water pouring in through the D deck gangway door left open after Lightoller had it opened to load more passengers, water would have been able to flow freely down D deck to the bow till it encountered Bulkhead # 5 which would stop water transmitting foreward on D deck. This means that water would pour down into Boiler room # 5 increasing the rate of flooding further more making the pumps useless in keeping the compartment dry. By time the D deck gangway doors were fully underwater, water would be pouring over the sides onto the well deck area and the folksel is just inches above the ocean at this time. Once water gets on the well deck you can kiss goodbye the thought of keeping her afloat. Can possibly keep her afloat long enough to get all off, but she would eventually sink with her upper most deck under water in the bow.

The basics of what I am saying is that even in a what if situation that the Titanic had some bulkheads 2 decks higher to allow more compartments to flood without sinking the ship, it is still possible for Titanic to sink if water was allowed to enter the ship in different locations. Port holes left open by passengers would have allowed water to flood the same compartments or allow water to flood compartments not damaged, the D deck gangway door left open if it got enough water in her to bring that door under water, that would have increased the rate of flooding considering that door would have allowed almost if not the same amount of water into the hull into other compartments that the damage from the iceberg was allowing to freely flow into the first 6 compartments.
 
>>Were any of the portholes located below the bulkhead deck capable of being opened?<<

There are those portholes on Britannic's E-Deck which were left open to ventilate the ward, and this was certainly below the bulkhead deck. They did a lovely job of speeding up the sinking too. Considering that the Britannic was touted to be the "New And Improved" model of the Olympic class, I see no reason why the older sisters shouldn't have the same feature.
 
Michael:

Only the Collision bulkhead, that between BR 6 and Hold 3, that between BR 4 and BR 5, that between the Recip. engine room and BR 1, and the one that divided the electric dynamo room were taken to B deck on Britannic. Most others went no higher than those on Titanic if my information is correct. Portholes on E deck or above were therefore above the bulkhead deck which is considered to be the lowest deck level that the bulkheads are carried to. Those on F deck or below would be below the bulkhead deck. I understand that those on G deck simply could not be opened. So my question is more directed to the ones on F deck, and would these be of the Utley's patent type which would allow air in and keep water out? And were these types really fitted on Olympic and Titanic and exactly where?

Also the coal scuttles located just above F deck along the length of the boiler rooms to port and starboard were supposed to be watertight.
 
>>I understand that those on G deck simply could not be opened.<<

Okay, I see where you're going with all this, and I would hope that they couldn't be opened. Unfortunately, I'm not up on the specific type of porthole used in the areas you're interested in. Perhaps Scott Andrews, Bruce Beveridge, or Steve Hall could help you out here. These chaps know more about the nuts and bolts details of the Olympic class then just about anyone alive.
 
The rule is simple-never expose the beam to hazard. You can always buy a new ship, but no amount of money will bring back the dead. Not that they cared. The only reason there was change was because Guggenheim and the Strausses died. Nobody cared about the steerage passengers.
 
>>The only reason there was change was because Guggenheim and the Strausses died. <<

Not true.

>>Nobody cared about the steerage passengers.<<

Also not true. Take a look at the storm of controversy which followed in the wake of the sinking. You need go no further then either the inquiries or the media to find a long list of champions for the steerage passngers.
 
Take a look also at the long list of Board of Trade regulations for immigrant ships, most of which were specifically concerned with the health and safety of steerage passengers. And keep in mind that the major shipping lines were in fierce competition for the lucrative steerage trade, so a reputation for not caring about their steerage passengers was something that all wished to avoid.
 
Adding watertight decks, or capping the compartments, was not done very often for several reasons:
1. It was very difficult to make them truly watertight.
2. Getting people and objects into the compartments was more difficult.
3. The hydrostatic pressure would eventually rupture the "capped" sections if enough compartments were flooded.

The real key to safety was to avoid the collision in the first place. The second was to carry the transverse bulkheads as high as practicable.

Brent
 
>>The real key to safety was to avoid the collision in the first place.<<

BINGO!!!!

>>The second was to carry the transverse bulkheads as high as practicable.<<

Which unfortunately for an ocean liner isn't always that practical. You could build the thing so it could bew buttoned up like a battleship, and it would be just as difficult to sink. The catch is that it would be so "User Unfriendly" that the traveling public would avoid such a ship in droves.
 
I have talked with some Titanic buffs who feel that once the berg was spotted, Murdoch should have ordered Hitchens to aim straight for it, as odds are a headon collision would not have doomed the ship. Be that as it may, it would have been foolish to aim for danger..
The mistake was ordering the engines in reverse- that would have shut off the central prop....
 
quote:

The mistake was ordering the engines in reverse- that would have shut off the central prop.
What mistake? The only person who said anything about engines being reversed was Boxhall, and everybody accepted what he said without challenge. Yet, there is NO supporting evidence that Murdoch did that. There is supporting evidence that the order was STOP. In any case, from a wealth of evidence, the engines did stop until after the collision took place.​
 
Back
Top