Fred Fleet and his discharge book

[Paul Lee]

Theres a very poor quality picture of Fleet's book here:

http://www.titanichistoricalsociety.org/museum/27-fleet-dis-book.asp

It may be a copy of the one lost during the sinking, but would he (or the BoT?) go to the trouble of copying out the preceding entries of his work entry? In Fleet's book there are 5 entries before "Titanic". However, the handwriting of the entries do look the same...

Best wishes

Paul

 

[Paul Lee]

I just found this on E-T

"The day was rainy and grey. Titanic remained in Berth 44. On this day 4,427 tons of coal were loaded aboard. The crew were still being signed on at the hiring halls for White Star. Names like Reginald Jones, Alfred Maytum, Thomas Barker, Albert Haines, Bertram Noss, Charles Joughin, Arthur May and his father, A. W. May... 34-year-old Joseph Scarrot signed on as an Able Seaman:

"I signed on the 'articles' as 'A.B.' on Monday, 8th April, 1912. The signing on seemed like a dream to me, and I could not believe I had done so, but the absence of my discharge book from my pocket convinced me. When I went to the docks that morning I had as much intention of applying for a job on the Big 'Un as we called her, as I had of going for a trip to the moon."

...which indicates that discharge books were, indeed, surrended.

Best wishes

Paul

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Noel's suggestion that some men might have been carrying old (full) books makes good sense. One of the descriptions of effects found with a body actually does state that the book was full (steward Edwin Petty). In other cases (firemen, stewards, a pantryman, a storekeeper, a waiter) there is no mention of this, but there was no standard policy for recording details so that doesn't imply that the books were not full.

 

[Dave Gittins]

The picture looks like a reconstruction. The right hand side should contain a list of captain's names, generally put in with a rubber stamp. I can't read the writing, but it looks like there is some note explaining their absence. That, and the writing, convince me it's not the book Fleet used on Titanic.

Another point is that the names of ships and ports were frequently put in using rubber stamps, as were the dates of the voyages.

 

[Paul Lee]

Steward Prior's discharge book is held by the Southampton maritime museum - a picture of it is in "Titanic Voices". For the pages in question, page 11 and 12, it says, in handwritten script (all the same handwriting): "Oceanic, Do (ditto), Titanic". Then after this, the ships and other details are in very faint ink stamp. The Oceanic/Titanic statements have, in the "Signature of Master" column "Extracted from agreements (next line illegible) Registrar General 12 July 1912". Presumably the first ten pages are taken from other ships' agreements?

Cheers

Paul

 

[Dave Gittins]

Prior's book is on the same lines as Fleet's. Both look nothing like an original, current book. I have a high quality scan of one and it's totally different, with almost all of it filled in with rubber stamps. I regret that I am not permitted to post it here or elsewhere. It's not from Titanic but it has close Titanic connections and the owner wants to keep it private, due to its great value.

 

[Paul Lee]

It makes me think that the hype surrounding Fleet's book is less than honest...

Cheers

Paul

 

[Dave Gittins]

Paul, it probably merely results from people not being familiar with the usages of the sea. That's a common problem with Titanic fans. Very little has been written about Titanic by seamen. Also, the hype surrounding Titanic has produced incredible profits for those lucky enough to own something remotely connected with the ship. The recent sale of Annie Caton's replacement seaman's book was an example. Medals owned by Captain Steele, whose connection with Titanic was very small, also fetched big money. O tempora, O mores!

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>It makes me think that the hype surrounding Fleet's book is less than honest...<<

Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. I knew these documents were important, but I never knew they were locked up for safekeeping until Dave and Noel pointed it out. It makes sense though. I suppose it would act as something of a deterrant to desertion as well. Not foolproof, but better then nothing.

 

[Inger Sheil]

quote:

Medals owned by Captain Steele, whose connection with Titanic was very small, also fetched big money.

They did? Cheers, Dave - you've just send me googling! I realised I hadn't seen the results of the auction.

I'm rather partial to the notes in the surviving officers' applications for replacements of their Master's certifications...in the space for where/when lost, they all have a variation on 'on Board RMS Titanic, mid-Atlantic 15 April 1912'. All of them had their fees for re-issuing the certifications waived.​

 

[Mark Robert Hopkins]

>>All of them had their fees for re-issuing the certifications waived.<<

I should hope so. Considering that it was a circumstance beyond their control (another discussion for another time and place), I wouldn't have blamed them for raising hell if they had to pay.

Sorry for the interruption, Inger. I felt a need to say that. Now, go on, what were saying?...

 

[Inger Sheil]

Yes, I thought it was a pretty inarguable reason for having lost them!

 

[Noel F. Jones]

Further to my above posting, Chris Dohany had previously said:

".....there is a peculiar stamping on the actual documents that the crew signed - most if not all signees have the notation "Discharge A not produced."

I am intrigued. Upon what document was this stamp placed?

If it was the Articles of Agreement then I can only assume the vessel was so desperate for crew that she would sign on anything capable of walking aboard, whether documented seaman or displaced sagger-maker!

And the B.O.T. 'shipping masters' were turning a decidedly blind eye in illicit compliance!

To my knowledge, in Southampton in April 1912 such an extreme deficit of manning did not obtain.

Please advise....

Noel

 

[Inger Sheil]

I seem to recall seeing this stamp (and its counterpart, 'Dis A Produced') through quite a few of the Articles of Agreement for the Olympic, Oceanic, etc etc as well, Noel - I'll look through my copies of crew agreements when I get home to see if I can find some examples.

 

[Dave Gittins]

Paul Sopin has just pointed out to me that Annie Caton's book actually failed to sell. It appears that I jumped to a conclusion, based on material sent to me from Southampton.

At a quick glance, I see that a quite a number of Titanic's crew did not produce discharge books. Notable characters that didn't include Jack Phillips and Herbert Pitman. The event must have been pretty common. There was a little rubber stamp specially made for the case. Where large groups produced books, the lists are marked "Discharge A produced" along the left hand edge. As Noel said, it seems rather irregular. Did they get away with producing union membership records?