Mark Chirnside
Member
Hi Brian,
Are there any specific threads you could direct us to, then?
Best regards,
Mark.
Are there any specific threads you could direct us to, then?
Best regards,
Mark.
Grand staircase
- Thread starter Stefan Diklich
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- grand staircase
Brian R Peterson
Guest
I believe the topic was discussed under the "Not Completed" thread, as well as various other Grand Staircase threads under the Technical/Contruction thread.
Now if I implied that I have definite proof that I know this for a fact I did not mean to, I was speculating that since it was known that the interiors were not 100% finished that perhaps the GSC was not installed and or not completed.
Best Regards,
Brian
Now if I implied that I have definite proof that I know this for a fact I did not mean to, I was speculating that since it was known that the interiors were not 100% finished that perhaps the GSC was not installed and or not completed.
Best Regards,
Brian
Bill Wormstedt
Member
Unfortunately, "Titanic Voices" does not give us any back-up data regarding the statement that the clock wasn't installed. Or point us to where the authors heard that information.
Dan Cherry
Member
Unfortunately, also, in any sort of forum, speculation and rumor have a way of becoming 'fact' in the space of a few short threads, and it can take weeks, months, or years for the "I heards" to be dispelled - case in point, the "Kate/Leo" crowd back in '97/'98 ran rampant with rumors and myth, and then later the Titanic 2 heyday; not to say that conjecture and specuation doesn't have its place. Researchers love primary sources, but sometimes to fill in the 'gaps' one can only go by circumstantial evidence until it can be replaced with something more definitive.
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Brian,
Are you aware that most interior fittings are usually completed by the time the ship is launched so it is ready to be fitted out as soon as possible? I assume that Titanic's and Olympic's fittings would have been completed almost simultaneously. Also, I doubt that such a show piece as the grand staircase would be left unfinished or carved simply just to save time. If most paneling was not complete by the time Titanic was launched, it was at least complete once the ship was ready to have her passenger and crew accommodation to be fitted. There would be minor changes that were done late and quickly, such as the Cafe Parisien and the two cabins in the aft staircase, other late arrivals would be various furniture and other fittings such as possibly the clocks. However, Titanic had a master clock that controlled about 50 clocks all over the ship - which I'm sure all arrived to the ship at the same time. This included the 10 or more clocks throughout the grand staircase areas (fore and aft), lounges and smoking rooms, crew areas etc, etc. Why one clock in the forward grand staircase was forgotten seems a little odd. If a mirror was in its place, perhaps it was only temporary for whatever reason, and was installed once the ship was in Southampton.
Daniel.
Are you aware that most interior fittings are usually completed by the time the ship is launched so it is ready to be fitted out as soon as possible? I assume that Titanic's and Olympic's fittings would have been completed almost simultaneously. Also, I doubt that such a show piece as the grand staircase would be left unfinished or carved simply just to save time. If most paneling was not complete by the time Titanic was launched, it was at least complete once the ship was ready to have her passenger and crew accommodation to be fitted. There would be minor changes that were done late and quickly, such as the Cafe Parisien and the two cabins in the aft staircase, other late arrivals would be various furniture and other fittings such as possibly the clocks. However, Titanic had a master clock that controlled about 50 clocks all over the ship - which I'm sure all arrived to the ship at the same time. This included the 10 or more clocks throughout the grand staircase areas (fore and aft), lounges and smoking rooms, crew areas etc, etc. Why one clock in the forward grand staircase was forgotten seems a little odd. If a mirror was in its place, perhaps it was only temporary for whatever reason, and was installed once the ship was in Southampton.
Daniel.
Jeremy Lee
Member
If extra additions such as the Ismay screen and Cafe Parisien for example had time to be installed and completed, it is strange that the centrepiece of the ship, which was the GSC, was left incomplete.
Brian R Peterson
Guest
After doing some extensive research on the topic, and noting that passengers and newspapers do not make any special notice of the Titanic GSC which if it were incomplete or plainly carved they certainly would have, at this point I am inclined to believe that the "Honour & Glory Crowning Time" clock carvings were completed, however the clock was not installed in time for the voyage but instead replaced by a small mirror to fill the void and this went largely unnoticed.
Best Regards,
Brian
Best Regards,
Brian
Mark Chirnside
Member
Hi Brian,
Could you point to any specific sources that led you to these conclusions?
For instance, the statement: 'however the clock was not installed in time for the voyage but instead replaced by a small mirror to fill the void and this went largely unnoticed. '
And a source apart from Titanic Voices, which only speaks of a temporary substitution? And if it was 'largely unnoticed' that indicates that at least someone did notice it, even if the majority did not. If that is so, who were they and what is your source?
Best regards,
Mark.
Could you point to any specific sources that led you to these conclusions?
For instance, the statement: 'however the clock was not installed in time for the voyage but instead replaced by a small mirror to fill the void and this went largely unnoticed. '
And a source apart from Titanic Voices, which only speaks of a temporary substitution? And if it was 'largely unnoticed' that indicates that at least someone did notice it, even if the majority did not. If that is so, who were they and what is your source?
Best regards,
Mark.
Brian R Peterson
Guest
Hi Mark,
I was using Titanic Voices as my main source for this opinion, I failed to add the temporary situation into the post and that was an error on my part, indicating I had solid evidence to the contrary.
When I refer to "they" I was making note of the passengers and newspapers who recorded the descriptions of the Titanic's interiors, and how no specific details of whether the clock and or mirror were in place for the voyage were made by either.
Most of my source for my conclusion is the lack of detailed accounts of the GSC carvings, now while I do not rule out that the clock very may well have been installed before the ship left for New York, I simply stated it there was a possibility that it was not.
Best Regards,
Brian
I was using Titanic Voices as my main source for this opinion, I failed to add the temporary situation into the post and that was an error on my part, indicating I had solid evidence to the contrary.
When I refer to "they" I was making note of the passengers and newspapers who recorded the descriptions of the Titanic's interiors, and how no specific details of whether the clock and or mirror were in place for the voyage were made by either.
Most of my source for my conclusion is the lack of detailed accounts of the GSC carvings, now while I do not rule out that the clock very may well have been installed before the ship left for New York, I simply stated it there was a possibility that it was not.
Best Regards,
Brian
Jeremy Lee
Member
The incomplete state of the Titanic's GSC was probably why no photographs of it exist today.
Dan Cherry
Member
There, again, is no reason to suppose that. Refer to some of the above posts....
Justin James Keeney
Guest
I noticed that in James Cameron's Titanic movie when Jack and Rose run down the grand staircase to the reception room it appears to be daylight, why is that?
thanks
thanks
Brian R Peterson
Guest
>Hi Justin,
While this does seem like an error on Cameron's behalf it is not. both the dome over the Grand Staircase and the leaded glass windows on D Deck in the First Class Reception Room and Dining Saloon were back lit by electric lights to make the areas look more attractive at night.
Best Regards,
Brian
While this does seem like an error on Cameron's behalf it is not. both the dome over the Grand Staircase and the leaded glass windows on D Deck in the First Class Reception Room and Dining Saloon were back lit by electric lights to make the areas look more attractive at night.
Best Regards,
Brian
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Brian,
While the windows in the reception room (and dining room) were back lit by linolite, the dome was not back lit. At night the 50-light dome chandelier would have been lit, and the cornice had linolite worked into it and would have also been lit, but there was no light shining through the dome from behind.
Daniel.
While the windows in the reception room (and dining room) were back lit by linolite, the dome was not back lit. At night the 50-light dome chandelier would have been lit, and the cornice had linolite worked into it and would have also been lit, but there was no light shining through the dome from behind.
Daniel.
Justin James Keeney
Guest
The glass dome over the grand staircase, were the passengers able to see the actual sky through it or was it not see through glass?
