If Marconi had been on board........

[N. D. Risener]

Thanks Robert,

I think we agree about the proprieties of the matter. Sailors have been famous since long before the 20th Century for their ability to use profanity. In one musical Rex Harrison sings "All at once you're using language that would make a sailor blush."

Yes, the people back then, and not just sailors, knew the words and then some. But there were situations when they would use them and situations when they wouldn't. And there were a lot more situations where they wouldn't back then than there are now.

As for Pearl Harbor getting a message from the USS Trump. Only way we will ever know how they handle it is if someone puts it in a movie.

 

[Mike Spooner]

If I was Mr Marconi on board I be thinking business. Get those dam messages sent out for the profits of the company!
Weren't the operators on a commission rate to?

 

[Julian Atkins]

Hi N. D. Risener,

My brother served in the Royal Navy for 26 years. He had a very low opinion of the US Navy in the second Iraq War, his ship being fired upon by a US Navy vessel, and many other encounters. He told me all, but we will probably have to wait 30 years from the events for the relevant files to be de-classified.

One has only to consider Pearl Harbour to consider the US Navy to have been considerably lax, and if my brother's recollections are anything to go by they were pretty lax 60 or so years later.

I am afraid your great country does not attain to the same standards of the Royal Navy, and it does not surprise me that US Navy wireless operators resulted to bad language and breaching of all accepted rules for such communications.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[N. D. Risener]

Hello again Julian,

Opinions are one thing but evidence is something else. A scene in a modern movie designed to entertain the audience and unsupported by any historical records is not credible evidence that the scene depicts something that actually occurred.

 

[Julian Atkins]

???

What did my above post have to do with a modern movie?

It is what my brother told me.

I could probably persuade him to post his own recollections on here, if it would make any difference, if you are accusing me of lying. I think my brother's medals that he wears each Remembrance Sunday speak for themself. I am very proud of what my brother did serving His Queen and Country for all those years.

I don't understand your reply at all.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[N. D. Risener]

Heavens, I'm not accusing anyone of lying. Just engaging in light hearted banter. Since your comment mentioned navy operators using bad language, etc. which was what the movie depicted, and which was the subject matter I had presented for questioning, I naturally connected your comment to that subject and followed up with an observation, valid I believe, about the veracity of movies.

I don't know what experiences your brother had in his many years of service. You mentioned his ship being fired on but nothing said about his ever having an experience with US Navy personnel using improper communications. If you have a low opinion of the US Navy because your brother has a low opinion so be it. And if your low opinion causes you to believe, as in you wouldn't be surprised, that a suggestion of misconduct by US Navy personnel is likely to be true and indeed usually characteristic of those personnel then you're welcome to that opinion. But it's still just an opinion.

 

[Julian Atkins]

Hi N.D. Risener,

I didn't mention navy operators using bad language - your post 16 did! I never mentioned a movie - you did!

My brothers' Royal Navy ship was fired at by a US Navy ship in the second Iraq war. Had the aims been accurate my brother and his ships company might not have lived to tell the tale, and there would have been a hell of a row to put it politely, and a hell of a lot of grieving families, including my own.

Get a grip on reality please!

I actually considered your posts quite offensive.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[N. D. Risener]

I can only regret that you took offense where no offense was intended.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

Thanks Robert,

I think we agree about the proprieties of the matter. Sailors have been famous since long before the 20th Century for their ability to use profanity. In one musical Rex Harrison sings "All at once you're using language that would make a sailor blush."

Yes, the people back then, and not just sailors, knew the words and then some. But there were situations when they would use them and situations when they wouldn't. And there were a lot more situations where they wouldn't back then than there are now.7

As for Pearl Harbor getting a message from the USS Trump. Only way we will ever know how they handle it is if someone puts it in a movie.

To H.D. RIsener -
That was the most "far out thing" I could think of at the moment ! LOL
They have all sorts of ways to check on this today.....they didn't in 1941.
Sure, sailors have quite a vocabulary but not when talking to an officer or on official business .
To H.D. Risener and Julian Atkins -
Just for the record , my Naval Experience was very little . I was only in the USN for 4 years.
And in that time I had only advanced from Seaman Recruit to Second Class Petty Officer.
And the ship on which I served for a little over 2 years sea duty was far removed from any action.
And just one of the radar technicians and very little involved in anything on the ship other than that.
So , as you may read from my posts my knowledge and experience of naval things is very limited.
I have the greatest respect for things British. My Grandfather Paige and Family emigrated from Tunbridge Wells to Belton , Texas in 1885 . He died many years before I was born so I never met him , but from what I have heard he was quite a wise and good man.
To Julian Atkins -
I never had the experience myself, but I have heard of some USN sailors who said they had very low opinions of RN sailors. So be it. I'm neutral.
I never considered my self a real sailor. I was just the radio repair man.

Incidentally - and it's off - topic - you might want to read of : one person's experience in one unit of the British Army during the Korean Conflict : ," A Call To Arms - Interlude In The Military '' , by ''Edmund Aubrey'' (Pen Name of British Political Scientists Edmund S. Ions. ). I corresponded with Mr. Ions . We had some differences on another of his books, ''Sherlock Holmes In Dallas'' but he is certainly to be honored and admired for his Military Service.
Mr. Ions said he passed through the base at Iwakuni, Japan.
The ship on which I served was based at Iwakuni.
But other than that our paths never crossed in Iwakuni.

 

[Steven Christian]

The brits and american sailors having a low opinon of each other has been going on since 1775. Nothing new there. Like Robert that was a non issue to me. On the other hand 2 of the worst bar room brawls I ever saw were between the brits and the aussies. One in the PI and one in Singapore. Those guys would fight over nothing. They just liked to brawl...LOL. OK..back to Marconi.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

Correction to previous post.
''A Call To Arms......" was written under the name of Edmund S. Ions
''Sherlock Holmes In Dallas '' was written under the Pen Name of "Edmund Aubrey"

As for any brawls, fights or other disturbances. I guess I was lucky. The only Shore Patrol Duty I remember was riding a shuttle bus from the boat landing to the main gate at Iwakuni. Everyone behaved very well and it was a rather boring evening.

But back to Marconi..
If Marconi had been aboard would he
have had any contacts or other relations, or any reason to be in contact with those such as Thomas Andrews and The Guaranty Group ?

I've seen ''The Final Countdown'' , too.
Was time travel known or even heard of in 1941 ?

But ANTR is still #1 on my list.

 

[Steven Christian]

Correction to previous post.
''A Call To Arms......" was written under the name of Edmund S. Ions
''Sherlock Holmes In Dallas '' was written under the Pen Name of "Edmund Aubrey"

As for any brawls, fights or other disturbances. I guess I was lucky. The only Shore Patrol Duty I remember was riding a shuttle bus from the boat landing to the main gate at Iwakuni. Everyone behaved very well and it was a rather boring evening.

But back to Marconi..
If Marconi had been aboard would he
have had any contacts or other relations, or any reason to be in contact with those such as Thomas Andrews and The Guaranty Group ?

I kind of doubt it. I don't see any reason why he would. Like I said before I'm sure he would of checked in on his lads in the radio room but being on the most luxurious liner of the day he probably would have been enjoying other things. Especially if he was traveling with his family.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

I kind of doubt it. I don't see any reason why he would. Like I said before I'm sure he would of checked in on his lads in the radio room but being on the most luxurious liner of the day he probably would have been enjoying other things. Especially if he was traveling with his family.

Another guess :
If Marconi had been aboard, he might even have been invited to have dinner at The Captain's Table ?
At The Captain's Table on SS Lucania ?


Reference to the photograph :
I am assuming that is Marconi in the center ?
Are the two young lads Marconi's sons ?

 

[Steven Christian]

Another guess :
If Marconi had been aboard, he might even have been invited to have dinner at The Captain's Table ?
At The Captain's Table on SS Lucania ?


Reference to the photograph :
I am assuming that is Marconi in the center ?
Are the two young lads Marconi's sons ?

I'm sure he would have if the captains table was set. They might not have even left port. He was on it to install equipment. As for his sons...that is probably a good guess but I don't know. The picture was just labeled Marconi and crew of the SS Lucania.

 

[Mike Spooner]

It would be interesting if it is known how much time was spent on learning how to send and receive Morse Code as compared to the time spent on the Marconi Equipment itself......starting with the elementary electricity ; then on to connecting up a wireless, how to trace faults and repair breakdowns, etc.

If Marconi had been aboard, I think that possibly Phillips and Bride might asked Marconi for some help and advice in locating the problem and how to repair it.
Marconi might have been sort of a middle man between the Marconi Operators and the Captain and the Officers on the Bridge in advising them of the problem, trouble shooting and repair that Phillips and Bride were involved.
But I don't think Marconi would have gone any farther than that in "Advising the Captain".

At least during my service in the USN, the duties of operation of the equipment and maintenance and repair of the equipment were separate.

RM's (RadioMan Rating) Were required to know correct procedure in radiotelephone and radiotelegraphy (sending and receiving Morse Code),etc. But not required to know how to repair the equipment , although some might be very family in this regard. There were also some licensed Amateur Radio Operators who were
RM's.

ET's (Electronic Technician Rating) Were required to know the theory, troubleshooting, repair, maintenance , etc. of the radio, radar, sonar and other electronic equipment aboard the ship. But there was no requirement for knowing the Morse Code for example, although some might be very familiar in this regard. There were also some licensed Amateur Radio Operator who were ET's.

The basic course for ET's at that time was 36 weeks in length.
(1) Basic math, electricity and electronics theory, etc. Building and testing simple electronic circuits. ,trouble shooting , etc.
- 20 weeks.
(2) Experience on operating and maintaining actual shipboard radio, radar and sonar and other related shipboard equipment. Troubles were simulated in the equipments with practice in trouble shooting .
-16 weeks

There was also a course at the Junior College that I attended ,(and graduated from) that offered a course in "Electricity 133 - Amateur Radio" to prepare the student for "passing the exam" to get an Amateur Radio License.
Student desks were equipped with earphones for listening and keys for sending
In learning the Morse Code.
The Amateur Radio License Manual was used as the textbook.
The instructor would send (in Morse Code) sample questions from the book and the students would send the answer (in Morse Code) to the instructor for practice in sending and receiving Morse Code.
At that time sending and receiving Morse Code at 13 Words Per Minute was also a requirement .
The instructor was a Licensed Amateur Radio Operator as well as being a Veteran who had served as an ETC (Rating - Electronic Technician ; Rank - Chief Petty Officer) in the United States Navy.
That's how some of us got our "ham radio tickets" !

That's how it was for as much as Ancient History is concerned. LOL

if you were to put it in modern terms , the Marconi Operator was both an RM as well as an ET. ?

Jack Phillips by 1902 became an experience telegraphy operator with the Post Office at 20 words a minute with ease. The time with Marconi training school he was soon up to 25 words per minutes.
Surprising enough in his school days before joining the Post Officer he didn't show much interest in schoolbook work, but very good with hand tools and handicrafts. So one can see the time on Titanic wireless break down he was quite willing to get stuck in and fix the problem.