Michael Shakesby
Member
Never thought of that. I use my desktop and laptop here. Always shows up. But I know a lot of people only use their phones now. More power to them...I just can't use mine for the web..drives me batty. So I won't recommender the right hand column anymore. They can become thread hunters for whatever device they have. Cheers.Moderator's observation:
The "right hand column" might or might not be present, depending on what device is being used and what settings are in place. I, for example, do not see it on my phone or my laptop, but have seen it on other machines.
I know that Lightoller had written to Murdochs widow telling of how he saw him swallowed by the sea while trying to launch collapsible A, and that there has been some doubt cast upon it.
after reading his book and Titanic Voyager (Patrick Stenson) I can not make him as a dishonest man.
I know that Lightoller had written to Murdochs widow telling of how he saw him swallowed by the sea
I ask those much more educated on Titanic, Lightoller and his history, am I imaging this or could this be the case?
I think it was about 5 minutes or so earlier than he was trying to make out.
I think we are singing from the same hymn book but perhaps reciting different chapters. I also do NOT believe that Lightoller actually saw Murdoch's final moments; at best he was guessing from what he might have seen of the First officer a few minutes earlier and then added a few embellishments in the correspondence.But he simply did not see how Murdoch died, so ultimately his input is of limited value.
Lightoller could've easily done what he said, not sure why it's discounted so much. The lifeboats were gone with only B left. He was on top of the officer's quarters and after it was done he walked "practically amidships" and looked down on Murdoch at A. He didn't need to walk to too far, so it is very plausible.
Once again, I agree that Lightoller could (and probably fleetingly did) see Murdoch working on Collapsible A when he (Lightoller) himself got on top of the officer's quarters to free Collapsible B. But the problem I am having is with Lightoller seeing Murdoch actually knocked overboard when Collapsible A floated free. That's because IMO Lightoller had got back down to boat deck level by then and was perhaps even in the water before getting onto the overturned Collapsible B. The reason I feel that way is because of the prevalent port list of the Titanic at the time.
The port side of the boat deck adjacent to the officer's quarters would have started flooding a few minutes before the corresponding part of the starboard side because of the list. They way I have formed a mental picture is that when Collapsible B fell off the roof of the officer's quarters and landed upside down, the boat deck was only partially flooded on the port side. That would mean that the corresponding part of the boat deck on the starboard side was still dry and Murdoch Moody, Brown etc were trying to drag the heavy Collapsible A into some sort of position for launching. That would be the last moment for Lightoller to have seen Murdoch because with Collapsible B already down on the boat deck (albeit upside down), he would have had no reason to remain on the roof and would have jumped down. After that, he would be busy with rest of the crew trying to float off the 'raft' formed by the capsized lifeboat etc.
That is why I feel that having seen Murdoch just after Collapsible B fell onto the boat deck and later with some hindsight, Lightoller assumed, almost certainly correctly, that Murdoch was knocked overboard while trying to launch Collapsible A. He might even have heard from John Collins about what happened to Murdoch. Collins was trying to help a woman and child - likely Anna Palsson and one of her 4 children - get into Collapsible A when he saw Murdoch knocked overboard. Collins failed in his rescue attempt and went under himself, but eventually managed to swim to the overturned Collapsible B. There is the possibility that at some later stage that night he informed Lightoller of Murdoch's fate.
So, when Lightoller told Mrs Murdoch that he 'saw' her husband knocked overboard, he was not exactly lying. He was either making an educated conjecture from his earlier sighting of the First Officer or slightly (and harmlessly) embellished what he had heard from a third party, most probably John Collins. Collins was in an unusual position in that AFAIK he was the only survivor in the vicinity of Collapsible A as it floated free but was rescued on the overturned Collapsible B.
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