Memorial plaques left on the wreck

Brian,

Thank you for the information.

I wonder what happened to Renaldi's French flag? Only the US flag remains.

The Canadian plaque was clearly not in evidence at the time that NOAA's Hercules ROV took images of the bridge in 2004.

Your count does not match the total that I see in the edited dive imagery from TFM:MP. I can't read the plaques in the edited video, so I need to go into the unedited footage in the Lone Wolf archives to see if the camera ever gets close enough to read the legends. If I find anything other than what you listed above, I'll let you know.

I am very intrigued about the Canadian plaque.

Parks
 
Michael,

You are right on that. I guess people put plaques down there just to show they can or they really wanted a monument to their loved ones who perished when the ship sunk.

Of course scattering ashes there is different. How much do you all want to bet that people who didn't sail on Titanic and had no loved one or ancestors who sailed on the ship and no real interest in who did, will want their ashes scattered just because they can on Titanic. Some of them will also want plaques to accompany them to commemorate their lives. No plaques please. That's the plaque I'm putting down there or a plaque that says No plaques on the bow, Thank you.
 
My highly subjective opinion only, and backed by nothing more then a measure of sentimentality, but it stikes me as a bit inappropriate that any Tom, Dick, and Harriette could have their ashes deposited there. As to the plaques...it's time to give it a rest.

But that's just me.

As always, your milage may vary.
 
I think Mel Fisher's ashes were placed on the wreck-
I can see how some might see it questionable for people to leave their ashes on the wreck-unless they were an actual survivor -(Such as USS Arizona survivors who continue have their ashes placed inside the Arizona wreck once they pass away).

As for the Titanic, if the ashes of someone who spent a lifetime reasearching the Titanic were placed on the wreck, I don't see the problem, provided a giant headstone is not placed on the boat deck....
 
I really don't have a problem with a Titanic researcher or someone who was interested in the ship or her passengers. I really meant someone who'd not really have any interest in Titanic really but decides they want their ashes placed there. Why would they do this you ask. Many reasons. First and for most because they can. No problem with that except they'll want a big ole plaque so everyone else will know their ashes rest there. Talk about putting on a show in death. I hope if somebody does this they give a lot of $$$ to Titanic Societies out there.
There I had my rant and everyone knows how I feel about plaques on the ship.
 
I'm not sure how giving $$ to the Titanic societies and having ones ashes placed on the wreck are in any way related.....

I'm in favor of people putting anything down at the site that commemorates the ship, be it a plaque or ashes of a Titanic buff- provided it doesnt clutter up the deck..


Of course if containers of ashes are left at the site, I suspect some might argue 'only the important Titanic buffs' should have that right- i think all Titanic buffs have the right, but it should be off to the side, next to the ship- not on the deck.
 
Mmmmmmm....any anti-salvage types might actually like the idea of interring mortal remains on the ship and in the debris field. If nothing else, it would end any debate as to whether or not the ship is a graveyard, because it would be.
 
>>but that doesnt mean it shouldn't be explored.....<<

Some would assert that this is exactly the case: It's a gravesite so don't touch and don't even look. Just get out, stay out, and don't come back. I'm not saying I agree with it, and I don't. I'm only going to point out that the sentiment is there.
 
quote:

of course the wrecksite is a graveyard

Tarn,

I will disagree with you there. The only verified remains in the vicinity of the wreck are the ashes of Mel Fisher.

I don't hear the crash site of United Flight 93 in Somerset, PA, referred to as a graveyard. Or the spot near MCAS Miramar where a USMC officer was killed while bicycling by a hit-and-run driver (the spot is marked with a white-painted bicycle and flowers). In similar fashion, I do not consider the Titanic wrecksite a graveyard. This is no way takes away from the emotional attachment given to either site or relieves one from treating each with the proper respect. A place does not need to be accorded the status of "graveyard" in order to be considered hallowed ground.

I take issue with the use of the "graveyard" term because it is wielded as a club by some to bash those of us who strive to unlock Titanic's remaining secrets by exploring the wrecksite. The insinuation is that we are no better than those who would defile the buried dead for profit.

Please bear with me for a moment here. I am about to explain things in a simplistic way but this is not meant as insult; rather, it is a way for me to work through my thoughts and build to a conclusion.

What is a grave? According to my dictionary, the most appropriate meaning of the term is "an excavation for burial of a body." In other terms, it is a place specifically chosen and crated to place a body so that it may literally rest in peace. A graveyard, therefore, is a specially-designated area where a number of graves are dug to permanently shelter these bodies (or shelter us from the decomposition process).

But is a graveyard where people die? A place of death oftentimes happens by chance...there is no preparation and the site is often inconvenient to the living. There are death sites all around us, including the chair in the Rexall drugstore where my grandfather died. How does one deal with the remains of the World Trade Center in the heart of the world's busiest marketplaces? When the Twin Towers fell, should the rubble have been left undisturbed because it was transformed into a "graveyard" when the people inside died?

There's also the matter of how far the fractured wreck travelled from the surface. When one places a memorial plaque on the wreck, it is actually located miles (if not horizontally -- that is still in dispute by some -- then at least vertically) from where the people died. What, then, do we recognise as the true hallowed place...the area on the ocean's surface where we believe the people died, or the spot on the ocean floor where we know the ship's shattered steel settled after the long fall from the world above? The former is too uncertain (being on the constantly moving ocean surface), while the latter is a permanent location on good solid earth. I understand that. I once stood directly underneath the spot where Fatman exploded over Nagasaki. I know this, not because some memorial was hanging 1800 feet in the sky, but because there is an obelisk erected in the park on the ground that points upward to where the detonation occurred. We need that solid anchor to remember what happened, and when, and when the event happened in the air or on the ocean's surface, there needs to be a corresponding memorial on solid earth that will give the memorial some permanance.

Memorial, yes. Graveyard? I don't think so. Some unfortunates may have been trapped inside the broken wreck as it descended on its long journey to its current resting place. Those bodies were compressed (like the styrofoam cups we carry in the Mirs for our amusement) in the first few hundred feet of the plunge...by the time the wreck finally landed on the ocean floor, even the bones of those bodies would have been shattered by the immense pressure. There was no burial for those remains, only complete oblivion miles away from where their spirits left their bodies. In my mind, the scene is somewhat reminiscent of the battlefield at Little Big Horn, where the bones of the fallen calvary soldiers were scattered by animals before they could be collected and buried in a proper cemetery. In Titanic's case, however, there was no one able to collect and bury the remains before they were completely consumed. As of today, the only human remains that I am aware of on the wreck are some of Mel Fisher's ashes that were sealed in acrylic inside a glass globe and deposited on the wreck. Ironic...the only known remains in the wrecksite belong to a treasure hunter who previous to his death had no physical connection with Titanic.

I have no argument -- and in actuality am in complete agreement -- with those who wish to consider the Titanic wrecksite as hallowed ground. I have and will always treat the wrecksite as such. But will I treat the site as a graveyard? No. A graveyard is a place for the dead and even though the wreck is shattered and sunk, it still lives and has a story to tell. I believe that by digging for the information and maybe even recovering a few key artefacts for further analysis on the surface, we are building a memorial to both the ship and those who sailed in her.

Speaking of memorials, if you asked me where the optimal place for a memorial would be, I would suggest the geographic centre of the 5 single-ended boilers in the debris field. More than likely, those boilers mark the spot on the ocean floor most directly underneath the original sinking datum. Like the obelisk at Nagasaki, a memorial there would mark the spot on the earth above which all of Titanic's victims lost their lives. But I agree that it would not have the visual impact of being located with the bow section.

Parks​
 
Hi Parks

You make excellent points- The point I was trying to make was Titanic was a site where many people died-and no doubt some were pulled to the bottom- Although I highly doubt human tissues have survived the years- so all that remains may be traces of clothing....
In that sense, the Titanic is a grave to those who died- as is every shipwreck that claimed a life, as is every tomb and every pyramid that housed a body, at present or in the past.

But even still, i strongly favor exploration, and artifact recovery of the Titanic (and likewise exploration and artifact recovery of Egyptian and Aztec pyramids, etc)....

There are some who use the term 'graveyard' as a lable to argue against exploration of thr wreck...I do not side with such people- if anything, it's our duty to continue exploration of the wreck if we want to honor those who died, by keeping the memory of Titanic very much alive...Many of the obejcts that have been recovered are the only link we have with a passenger or crewmember...Titanic victim Athol Broome's stewards jacket was recovered, his name hand written on the collar- that personal artifact has been viewed by millions, and people were left thinking about that particular Titanic victim, who might otherwie have remained a dry statistic in a book..
I think people died on Titanic...and yes, we need to return to the wreck, many times-

Perhaps 'graveyard' is too loaded and simplistic a term for me to have used-

regards

tarn Stephanos
 
Perhaps place of death. It's not a graveyard although people refer to it as such, there's no bodies there. Bodies haven't been there for eighty years for all I know. So in my opinion it's not a grave site(no Bodies) it's a memorial site. I myself have no problem with people bringing up artifacts or exploring the ship because these things teach us about The Titanic and who we were as people and what the world was like when she sunk.

I just wonder if there are part of the ship unexplored and unopened since the ship went down where there might be bodies. Highly unlikely I think. But who knows? If there isn't any bodies or bones no problem if there is I'd have a problem. But that's just me. I don't like hearing about people diving to The Empress Of Ireland because it is a resting place of human remains. But that's my opinion and I usually keep quiet about it. As for Plaques I've already stated my opinion on that. So I'll shut-up now.
 
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