Past Lives and Titanic

Children of the 50's and 60's will recall The Blob (couldn't touch grape jelly for years after), the oozing films of Willlam Castle and Hammer,the masterful Rod Serling (the very theme to the Twilight Zone sent chills racing), the Outer Limits, Way Out, and for sudden death and mayhem, Alfred Hitchcock.(Remember Monkey's Paw?) We were all afraid to take a shower alone after Psycho, then of course there was the The Thing Under the Bed Syndrome, closely related to the hand that could possibly pop up between the crack between the headboard and the pillows, the doppelganger in the mirror which only looked like you, and endless aliens flying by as you nervously twitched beneath the blankets. Voices from The Beyond could also chat you up when you turned on the radio late at night, and then there were those horrid flying monkey from Wizard of Oz which traumatized legions of Baby Boomers as tender tykes. Mostly though, sighing nostalgically here, it was flying saucers I fondly recall, and doing duck and cover under my school desk, which as everyone can tell you, was a surefire way to be safe from atomic attack from the Soviet Union. Oh- then there was Jeanne Dixon. Happy Days.
 
Shelley,

My younger sister is scared of that sort thing too and she's a child from the 90s, so it's not just kids from the 50s and 60s
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Michael and Jim,

Since you both seem to know so much about the alleged 'disappearances' of the ships and planes, could you explain why people wanted to make other people scared of that area? I don't understand the psychology behind that.

Carla
 
>>could you explain why people wanted to make other people scared of that area? I don't understand the psychology behind that.<<

It wasn't a desire to make anyone scared of the area at all. The Bermuda Triangle legend wasn't even born until the Flight 19 incident and from that point on, the mythmaking and misinformation took on a life of it's own, all aided and abetted by some vocal writers who had no greater goal in mind to make one helluva lot of money.

They weren't about to let anything as mundane as the facts get in the way of a good story, and it's not as if the credulous would bother to check things out.

BTW, here are some links so you can see for yourself what the Navy has to say about this.

Flight 19; http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq15-1.htm
Note the following from the site: " The weather over the area covered by the track of the navigational problem consisted of scattered rain showers with a ceiling of 2500 feet within the showers and unlimited outside the showers, visibility of 6-8 miles in the showers, 10-12 otherwise. Surface winds were 20 knots with gusts to 31 knots. The sea was moderate to rough. The general weather conditions were considered average for training flights of this nature except within showers." (So much for the clear air visibility unlimited legend!)


Bermuda Triangle FAQ's; http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq8-1.htm

>>So, I guess my suggestion about having inter-departmental aerosol Orthenex fights as a time killer during off hours will fall on deaf ears?<<

Errrr...probably.
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Michael, I sort of think (I am young and naive, forgive me!) that it wouldn't be 100% for the money. I think people want to believe in things so maybe they ignore some pertinent facts sometimes.

I think seamonsters are very cool, loch ness and all that, and I was sad to watch a documentary on them that showed they evidience for their existence. Some people can't handle evidence against the paranormal, perhaps.

And Shelley, I am a child of the 80s who was scared to death by "the Blob" at the age of nine. And oddly enough also by the movie "Mars Attacks!" because when nine it is harder to recognize parody than in later years.

But I was scared of aliens for years after that, the concept and some of the films about them that is. And I admit it, I still am.

I'm loving "The Twilight Zone" lately, though. Rod Serling was an attractive man.

I still have never liked looking in the mirror at night. I don't know if I am afraid of doppelganers, the mothman, or what but I just would rather not.

I have heard ghost stories from friends. Some from a friend who doesn't even believe in ghosts per say but saw and heard some disturbing things at an old movie theater he worked at.

Jim, I'll add that book to the excessive list of things I want to read after I finish the excessive amount of books I want to read before I get new books. But it sounds very interesting.
 
Lucy, I suspect you're right that money is not the exclusive motivator for all people who relate and re-relate these stories. Some so-called paranormal investigators - including some with a high media profile - I have trouble believing genuinely buy into what they're peddling (in some cases, it's very difficult not to suspect outright fraud). But others do seem to simply have a passion for a mystery and/or a good yarn. What could be more tantalising than possible evidence of, for example, life after death? And, like you, I am also aware of incidents for which I have not heard an entirely satisfactory explanation. That doesn't mean they're supernatural in origin, of course - odds are there's the 'perfectly good' explanation these things demand - but I'm certainly not going to pour scorn on those who are convinced that there are still things undreamed of in our philosophy.

One thing I have become more aware of in recent years are the different standards of empirical evidence required by different people. Since the early disappointments of Berlitz et al, I've placed an emphasis on quantifiable fact. Not once bitten/twice shy....many times bitten, very shy! But I have come into contact with many people who have somewhat lower threshold requirements for supporting fact and evidence. For example, I've come into contact with quite a few people on-line who don't see anything wrong with 'connecting the dots' - reaching suppositions or making guesses, then passing them off as established fact with no caveats about the conjectural nature of what they are relating. Some of them become quite hostile when questioned over sources, and clearly they think you're a dry-as-dust pedant if you make a distinction between what is documented and what is at best conjecture, and at worst outright fantasy.

When this takes place in discussions that touch on our deepest hopes and fears - the nature of the human soul and consciousness - and in an area ripe for exploitation by the unscrupulous, it can be a hall of mirrors.
 
Concerning the classic books of our youth, Inger, have you noticed that in the 1970s there seemed to be an overwhelming obsession with 'forces beyond one's control?' At least in "post-Gas Crisis; post-Meat Crisis; post-Garbage Crisis; post-Watergate Crisis; post Vietnam; post youth revolution; post having to listen to "Band on the Run" every third song on AM Radio All Summer Long" U.S.A. It seemed like, en masse, there was some desire to be confronted with something insurmountable and horrid at each turn~ so the warm fuzzy eco-friendly Mother Nature of 1969 to 1974 was transformed into a "being" (personified by Killer Sharks, Killer Bears, Killer Bees; Killer Piranha) who not only hated you but wanted to see you dead. Suddenly the afterlife did not seem as pleasant as it once did, and if you did not have the Gateway to Hell in your basement, then it was likely that at some point you'd encounter a haunted oven or at least an "unclean spirit" that would drive you out of your house in the dead of night. And, no doubt, while you were outside of your haunted house you'd either be abducted by a cult or hacked to death by Manson would-bes. Virtually everything you would care to eat was, of course, the worst sort of poison, but that did not matter since we were all slated to die in either a nuclear attack, a nuclear meltdown, or in a UFO invasion. City living would, doubtlessly, transform you into a murderous drone a la Taxi Driver, and fleeing to the country would either see you killed by an animal on the rampage or by your Deliverance-like neighbors. If spared that, you'd only be abducted from an isolated hillside by aliens who would use you as a lab rat. And, all of that paled to insignificance beside the real hovering horror ca. 1978: WHAT IF PRESIDENT CARTER GETS RE-ELECTED?

What did one do in such bizarre and trying times? One sought bizarre solutions. Whether it was through odd totalitarian movements; weird behavior modification; off the wall diets; Pyramid Power; Primal Screaming; Consciousness Raising; Mood Rings; Chanting; communal exorcism; biorhythm; Kirlian photography;past life channelling, the 1970s offered a witches brew of choices for those who sought to smooth out the potholes on life's highway with indulgent histrionics~ it wasn't called the Me Decade for nothing! For those of us not old enough to pay $500 to be dumped nude in the desert and forced to walk home, and those of us blessed with parents who did NOT put us on the "nothing but pureed rice" diet, it all seemed so puzzling and undesirable: uncontrollable forces colliding with horrific solutions.

>And, like you, I am also aware of incidents for which I have not heard an entirely satisfactory explanation. That doesn't mean they're supernatural in origin, of course - odds are there's the 'perfectly good' explanation these things demand

...that is soooooooo un-1970s.
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Ah, but that 'perfectly good explanation' might, as in the case of the Orang Medan, consist of a Soviet-developed sonic deathray!

I think you've done an excellent skewering of the underlying anxieties of the age...some of which persisted into the even more hedonistic 80s. Now that 'Forever Young' is once more playing on the airwaves, there are a few lines that always jar - they belong to another decade:

heaven can wait we're only watching the skies
hoping for the best but expecting the worst
are you going to drop the bomb or not?


The 70s disaster flick seems to resonate very well with the 50s cinema monstrosities...anything could happen when you meddle with Nuclear Power! And it just might! Giant Mutant Ants!
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It seemed like, en masse, there was some desire to be confronted with something insurmountable and horrid at each turn~ so the warm fuzzy eco-friendly Mother Nature of 1969 to 1974 was transformed into a "being" (personified by Killer Sharks, Killer Bears, Killer Bees; Killer Piranha) who not only hated you but wanted to see you dead.
I love it! Spot on! One of those 'Mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle/Devil's Jaw/Devil's Sea' type books posited a scenario that entralled me with the potential terror. What if - gasp! - sea snakes made their way up through the Panama Canal from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic? What could stop them? What if they started swarming the beaches on the Eastern seaboard?

It was only a matter of time, the author assured us. Snakes had already been seen at popular swimming beaches. Soon you wouldn't be able to dip a toe in the water without these aggressive, highly poisonous reptiles attacking. People would be dying in their hundreds.

With the benefit of several years and many dives with seasnakes, they're now one of my favourite sea critters. Curious, often colourful, and very interesting.

Although it's been a few decades since the book was written, I'm not aware of any Atlantic beaches closed due to seasnake infestation.​
 
>>Michael, I sort of think (I am young and naive, forgive me!) that it wouldn't be 100% for the money. I think people want to believe in things so maybe they ignore some pertinent facts sometimes. <<

You may have a point with that. For some, it's true belief and for my own money, I'm not entirely sure which is scarier. A staightforward huckster is reletively easy to understand and deal with. But a True Believer is immune to reason, impervious to any sort of disconfirming evidence (It's all part of "The Conspiracy" to hide "The Truth" )and can drag you right down into the abyss with him.
 
A true believer is immune to reason Michael stated. How very true indeed. There are to many groups, factions, and organizations to list that fall under that statement.
And when I said I was Joe Schmoe I was just being funny. Or trying for that matter.
I would never attack or degrade someone elses belief in anything. The way I see it, we are all individuals, and if your lucky, you get about 70 to 80 years to figure the whole thing out on your own. I feel there are so many people so concerned with telling people how to live their lives or what to think, that they don't take enough time to live their own lives.
I am not quite sure of the quote, but ol' Thoroeu said it pretty well when he penned; "let him move to the music he hears, however measured or far away."
Just ask my wife. She knows I will continue to "rage against the dieing of the light"
Which is how it should be in my honest opinion.
Be happy, be well- Don
 
>"let him move to the music he hears, however measured or far away."

True enough, as long as one is wearing walkman style earphones so that the rest of us are spared listening to his or her music of choice. Once one's choice of music is made public, one opens one's self up for criticism. So if a "true believer" opts to force an entire train car into listening to his Dexy's Midnight Runners CD, or shares his or her opinions on something like reincarnation, then that person has left himself open for 'input' from everyone, not just other true believers. And, if all of the input isn't of the hearts and flowers variety, it is a cop-out to say "you are picking on me. Let me march to the beat of my own music" since one has the option of NOT playing "Come on Eileen" (or discussing certain aspects of religion of which one only seems to have a hazy, superficial, grasp) where others can hear, and comment, on it.
 
You're obviously a believer in the right to retort, Jim, and I quite agree, and in any case it's an essential part of freedom of speech. Our ex-Foreign Secretary recently said that we should exercise our right to freedom of speech sensitively, which seemed fairly silly to me as even self-censorship means you don't actually have the right to freedom of speech at all. Besides, I prefer to know what idiotic or repellent views (and I'm not referring here to reincarnation which seems quite benign, if a bit pointless) are fermenting in my society, so that I can say something trenchant back.

On the topic of childhood frighteners, we had a good one here on (fairly embryonic) TV when I was about 9, called The Trollenberg Terror- the Trollenberg being a Swiss mountain. I watched it in morbid fascination for 6 weeks from behind the sofa, during which time 6 people trapped in a chalet gradually went mad one by one, rolled their eyes, muttered about how hot is was in here, and went out into the blizzard to meet a ghastly end with many noises off. In the last episode they made a very great mistake ... they showed you the Terror. It turned out to be a large ambulatory cabbage with squid-like eyes and a beak, and it ruined every other horror thriller for me thereafter. The production values were pretty low, of course, and they were doing their best, but even so....
 
>Our ex-Foreign Secretary recently said that we should exercise our right to freedom of speech sensitively....

Ugh! I hate him or her already!
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"Judiciously" would have been a far better choice since it carries with it the implication of wisdom rather than that of touchy-feely self censorship. One, of course, has the 'right' to scream fire in a crowded theatre, but one should also have the wisdom to know the consequences if one does, and the integrity to face the consequences afterwards. Witness the recent and ongoing Dixie Chicks debacle. Did they have the right to "bash Bush?" Of course. Was it a wise choice to do so, knowing that the core of their audience at the time was Southern-conservative? Probably not. What annoys me about this affair,and much of the current state of public discussion, is how quickly people duck behind the defensive "you are picking on me" smokescreen after saying something they KNOW will provoke a negative response.

>TV when I was about 9, called The Trollenberg Terror-

I LOVE that! Do your remember Ghost Hunt? That was the UK equivalent to War of the Worlds ca, 1990, in which real newscasters starred in a mock investigation of a haunted house and, one by one, were killed off by the forces within. It was well done and, predictably enough, many of those who tuned in after the opening credits thought it was the real thing. It only aired once, but DVD 'captures' of it have been circulating in the US for years as a cult item.
 
We had the vegetable parallel here in America with Attack of the Killer Tomatoes and the forgettable Mushroom People, both of which ran endlessly on the midnight Chiller on Saturday nights in the Washington, D.C. area. What a great salad it all made!
I am trying to recall something about Arthur Conan Doyle's foray into Spiritualism (after he got over fairy-chasing). I don't think it included reincarnation however. I also would like to get more of a handle on the thinking of William Stead on these matters. I wonder if some Titanic survivors did not explore some of the methods for contacting the Departed as it was certainly a cultural phenomenon at the time.
 
>>I wonder if some Titanic survivors did not explore some of the methods for contacting the Departed as it was certainly a cultural phenomenon at the time.<<

Shelley, as prevelant and as fashionable as spiritualism was at the time, I would be amazed if some of them didn't. This was a day and age when people were all agog at photos "proving" the existance of ghosts even though such photos were way too stylized, way too posed, and consistantly shown on close examinaton to be fakes, and people such as Madam Blavatsky were treated with the greatest esteem and respect. (Whether they deserved it or not!)

I think this speaks to the great harm that irrational beliefs can cause as well. The survivors would obviously have a lot of emotional baggage to shoulder and such people are ripe for exploitation by those who would use their grief to make a buck. Who wouldn't want some assurance...any assurance...that ones departed family and friends had made it to a better place? Who wouldn't be desperate to hear that, seemingly first hand? Who wouldn't fork over the bucks to be able to hear that?

As rediculous as some of the beliefs of that day and age were however, I don't think the people of our time should be too arrogant. We have no end of people who will blow up buildings with thousands of people in them thinking they'll be rewarded with 75 virgins to "Devirginize" through eternity, and who think they need to drink poison to board a UFO just to name a few.
 
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