Steam pressure of the engines

[khoi nguyen]

Another question,

First case, the main steam pressure was 215 psi, they cracked open the throttle valve to bring the pressure gauge of the HP cylinder up to 100 psi.

Second case, the main steam pressure was 150 psi, they cracked open the throttle valve to bring the pressure gauge of the HP cylinder up to 100 psi.

Would both cases yield the same rpm for the engine ?

 

[Jim Currie]

While on the subject of 29 boilers pressure which the system is design to run at 215psi.
However that's is a requirement from the fireman or some time know as the black gang to check out each boiler for the correct pressure at 215psi.
The question I ask at what stage when there drop in psi pressure do the firemen add more coal?

As Sam advised, read the article

Another question,

First case, the main steam pressure was 215 psi, they cracked open the throttle valve to bring the pressure gauge of the HP cylinder up to 100 psi.

Second case, the main steam pressure was 150 psi, they cracked open the throttle valve to bring the pressure gauge of the HP cylinder up to 100 psi.

Would both cases yield the same rpm for the engine ?

 

[Jim Currie]

Another question,

First case, the main steam pressure was 215 psi, they cracked open the throttle valve to bring the pressure gauge of the HP cylinder up to 100 psi.

Second case, the main steam pressure was 150 psi, they cracked open the throttle valve to bring the pressure gauge of the HP cylinder up to 100 psi.

Would both cases yield the same rpm for the engine ?

The upper cylinder in both cases would contain a fixed volume of steam at whatever the inlet pressure was.
The throttle - as is the case in all engines - was opened to produce the desired number of engine rpm which was equivalent to the desired speed.

 

[Mike Spooner]

I have looked into the history of Kilroy fireman/stoker indicator regulator gauge and can see why it was invented in the first place. As ship technology moved on with the use of multi boilers and in different boiler rooms things get a lot more complicated in controlling the equal performance of each boiler.
As if we had a ship with just one boiler per engine that is quit straight forward for a fireman/stoker to keep an eye on the pressure and heat. As with Titanic 29 boilers in 6 boiler rooms that now comes a problem to make sure each boiler is performing to the same level. Where a Mr Kilroy comes up with quite a clever idea by putting a time clock for each boiler when requires attention. With the large boilers port entry for the coal three in the front and three at the back, and never have the back or front port open at the same time for each boiler. Add to the problem of different boiler rooms to. Kilroy was smart enough to add a buzzer and a light to, due to the roaring noise of the boilers.
1. (Just a matter of interest do we know what the decibel reading were?
2. I still ask the question where was the pressure and heat temperature gauge placed on each boiler? As for a fireman when is the time to put more coal in and can see the boiler is up to the correct pressure and temperature why bother to add more coal!
3. As for Titanic with 24 boilers in operation I see 12 boilers will power each engine. If there is 12 steam pipes from the boilers into one for the high pressure cylinder. Was there a check valves or non return valves to prevent the steam entering back into the other boilers?
4. Then there is the in balance of boilers of having 5 per room. Or is it just the case the fifth boiler is used alternative per room for each engine?

 

[Jim Currie]

I have looked into the history of Kilroy fireman/stoker indicator regulator gauge and can see why it was invented in the first place. As ship technology moved on with the use of multi boilers and in different boiler rooms things get a lot more complicated in controlling the equal performance of each boiler.
As if we had a ship with just one boiler per engine that is quit straight forward for a fireman/stoker to keep an eye on the pressure and heat. As with Titanic 29 boilers in 6 boiler rooms that now comes a problem to make sure each boiler is performing to the same level. Where a Mr Kilroy comes up with quite a clever idea by putting a time clock for each boiler when requires attention. With the large boilers port entry for the coal three in the front and three at the back, and never have the back or front port open at the same time for each boiler. Add to the problem of different boiler rooms to. Kilroy was smart enough to add a buzzer and a light to, due to the roaring noise of the boilers.
1. (Just a matter of interest do we know what the decibel reading were?
2. I still ask the question where was the pressure and heat temperature gauge placed on each boiler? As for a fireman when is the time to put more coal in and can see the boiler is up to the correct pressure and temperature why bother to add more coal!
3. As for Titanic with 24 boilers in operation I see 12 boilers will power each engine. If there is 12 steam pipes from the boilers into one for the high pressure cylinder. Was there a check valves or non return valves to prevent the steam entering back into the other boilers?
4. Then there is the in balance of boilers of having 5 per room. Or is it just the case the fifth boiler is used alternative per room for each engine?

 

[Mike Spooner]

Jim, I am not to sure why you sent the photo? Where you trying to indicate the pressure gauge position?
But I do see the photo very much as a luxury boiler room indeed compare to what Titanic had to put up with.
Boilers in photo look about 12ftdia single ended two port. As on Titanic were just under16ftdia 21ft long and double ended three port. Then all that open space where the coal is on the floor. As in Titanic there is a row of boilers. The height space above the boiler is luxury compare to Titanic. As a land boiler rooms will have an open door to the fresh air and ventilation. No such luxury on Titanic been below the water level. With boilers in such a confined space and opposite to each other the noise must of been quite serious handicap in communication. Trying communicate to a fireman at the other end of the boiler 21ft away, I can see comes almost impossible. Where I can see the life saver for communication is that clever idea or invention of the Kilroy fireman/stoker indicator regulator gauge system.

 

[Mike Spooner]

Jim, I am not to sure why you sent the photo? Where you trying to indicate the pressure gauge position?
But I do see the photo very much as a luxury boiler room indeed compare to what Titanic had to put up with.
Boilers in photo look about 12ftdia single ended two port. As on Titanic were just under16ftdia 21ft long and double ended three port. Then all that open space where the coal is on the floor. As in Titanic there is a row of boilers. The height space above the boiler is luxury compare to Titanic. As a land boiler rooms will have an open door to the fresh air and ventilation. No such luxury on Titanic been below the water level. With boilers in such a confined space and opposite to each other the noise must of been quite serious handicap in communication. Trying communicate to a fireman at the other end of the boiler 21ft away, I can see comes almost impossible. Where I can see the life saver for communication is that clever idea or invention of the Kilroy fireman/stoker indicator regulator gauge system.

Jim I see I have made a mistake by saying the boilers where opposite to each other. As it was the coal bunkers. But never less the roaring noise from the boilers must of been a problem with communication.

 

[Rancor]

While on the subject of 29 boilers pressure which the system is design to run at 215psi.
However that's is a requirement from the fireman or some time know as the black gang to check out each boiler for the correct pressure at 215psi.
The question I ask at what stage when there drop in psi pressure do the firemen add more coal?

I don't think the fireman would look for a drop in pressure before adding coal. Their job was to keep the pressure at 215PSI, if it started to drop in your boiler you'd get a serious talking to from the head fireman!

Depending on the speed required, more or less coal would need to be burnt to maintain this pressure. This would certainly take some judgement but I guess that's where the stoking regulator came in. The faster the ship needed to go, the more often you added coal.

What would be lower would be the volume of steam supplied to the engines by controlling what's called the cut-off point, not the pressure. Shorter cutoff meant a smaller volume of steam available to expand in the engines and therefore a slower running rate. In an emergency they would still have the full pressure to use for reversal, and they could use a higher cutoff point to allow a greater volume of steam into the engines for reversing.

What part did the throttle itself play in this?

 

[Samuel Halpern]

What part did the throttle itself play in this?

No part at all as far as I could tell. If they wanted to stop an engine, they would close what was called the STOP valve. No matter how they controlled the engines, the volume of steam supplied by the boilers was ultimately determined by the the firing rate that was called for.

 

[Mike Spooner]

I don't think the fireman would look for a drop in pressure before adding coal. Their job was to keep the pressure at 215PSI, if it started to drop in your boiler you'd get a serious talking to from the head fireman!

Depending on the speed required, more or less coal would need to be burnt to maintain this pressure. This would certainly take some judgement but I guess that's where the stoking regulator came in. The faster the ship needed to go, the more often you added coal.



What part did the throttle itself play in this?

I don't think the fireman would look for a drop in pressure before adding coal. Their job was to keep the pressure at 215PSI, if it started to drop in your boiler you'd get a serious talking to from the head fireman!

Depending on the speed required, more or less coal would need to be burnt to maintain this pressure. This would certainly take some judgement but I guess that's where the stoking regulator came in. The faster the ship needed to go, the more often you added coal.



What part did the throttle itself play in this?

Looking at the role of fireman duty at the boiler pressure and seeing the information on Kilroy regulator system, I can there is quite a problem in getting a smooth operation to make sure each boiler will get equal attention. In fact I think the Kilroy system was a very clever invention yet so simple that was base a time clock. Of the 29 boilers and only 24 where operation. Each of those boilers double ended has 6 furnace ports x 24=72 to feed with coal giving a equal attention to. At no time you must not have a open port door both end on the same boiler. Where a well time program is carefully thought out. I certainly like the idea of alarm and a light, belt and braces indeed. The only question I have to ask, how long does it take to attend one port or to complete the circuit of 72 ports?

 

[Mike Spooner]

Looking at the role of fireman duty at the boiler pressure and seeing the information on Kilroy regulator system, I can there is quite a problem in getting a smooth operation to make sure each boiler will get equal attention. In fact I think the Kilroy system was a very clever invention yet so simple that was base a time clock. Of the 29 boilers and only 24 where operation. Each of those boilers double ended has 6 furnace ports x 24=72 to feed with coal giving a equal attention to. At no time you must not have a open port door both end on the same boiler. Where a well time program is carefully thought out. I certainly like the idea of alarm and a light, belt and braces indeed. The only question I have to ask, how long does it take to attend one port or to complete the circuit of 72 ports?

Apology I have made a mistake in the furnace ports 24 x6 =144 not 72. Quite some challenge to sort out equal time per furnace port. My question how long would it take to complete the circuit of 144 ports?

 

[Rancor]

Apology I have made a mistake in the furnace ports 24 x6 =144 not 72. Quite some challenge to sort out equal time per furnace port. My question how long would it take to complete the circuit of 144 ports?

There's a excellent description of the firing process in the book 'Down Amongst the Black Gang'. I'll have to see what I've done with it. I do remember though that the process was more than just throwing a shovel full of coal on, you also had to rake and level the fire. The full process was at least five minutes per furnace if I recall.

 

[Mike Spooner]

There's a excellent description of the firing process in the book 'Down Amongst the Black Gang'. I'll have to see what I've done with it. I do remember though that the process was more than just throwing a shovel full of coal on, you also had to rake and level the fire. The full process was at least five minutes per furnace if I recall.

Unfortunately I let my book Down Amongst the Black Gang to some else who very slow in return it back!
Does the book say at least five minutes per furnace? If that is the case I take it as read.

 

[Jim Currie]

Jim, I am not to sure why you sent the photo? Where you trying to indicate the pressure gauge position?
But I do see the photo very much as a luxury boiler room indeed compare to what Titanic had to put up with.
Boilers in photo look about 12ftdia single ended two port. As on Titanic were just under16ftdia 21ft long and double ended three port. Then all that open space where the coal is on the floor. As in Titanic there is a row of boilers. The height space above the boiler is luxury compare to Titanic. As a land boiler rooms will have an open door to the fresh air and ventilation. No such luxury on Titanic been below the water level. With boilers in such a confined space and opposite to each other the noise must of been quite serious handicap in communication. Trying communicate to a fireman at the other end of the boiler 21ft away, I can see comes almost impossible. Where I can see the life saver for communication is that clever idea or invention of the Kilroy fireman/stoker indicator regulator gauge system.

I am very much aware of the layout of Titanic's boiler rooms and the construction and operating procedures of coal and oil-fired Scotch boiler, Mike. You asked about gauges. I posted that as an example of where boiler pressure and temp gauges might have been mounted. Any I have seen were mounted a the front of each boiler, in clear sight of the Leading Stoker
As for noise -these were natural draft boilers so when not being stoked, there would be relatively little noise When on duty, Stokers would be strategically placed - none more than 30 feet from the center of the stokehold - no need for outrageous yelling... especially in a passenger ship

 

[Mike Spooner]

Thinking of pressures and team work of any firemen problems, All this would of been be sorted out on the Olympic crossings beforehand.