The californian inquiry

Thank you all for your comments and I realise my argument and my stance may appear highly contentious at this stage. But I believe I have good reason [nowadays] to hope that after centuries of speaking the truth and lying about the world we left behind we can better deduct what part of this information was sincere, and what part was pretentious.
 
There is hard evidence to conclude that Californian was interested in the fate of the Titanic as late as 11pm that night.
Now, these people [i.e. the crew of Californian and Lord] how often did they get a chance to see a spectacular work of human labor, the ultimate word in engineering, knock-your-socks-off, state-of-the-art hi-tech piece of machinery like Titanic?
Not everyday (or night) surely.
And probly that's why it was
A Night to Remember
and also why
Lord worked in mysterious ways

or should I say Lords?
 
It must have been a matter of professional interest, if not anything else, for Lord to see how Titanic handled the situation that had stopped his ship for the night.
 
the kind of rescue operation Californian was required to perform differed largely from what Carpathia did. And involved a great deal more risk than did simply picking up some people from lifeboats on the ocean.
If they got there on time, it is said the best they could have done was dispatch a lifeboat or two of their own with some crewmen to "fish out" a few survivors.
And now we'll have 1500 or so desperate people who just lost solid ground competing for the available places in these "bonus" lifeboats that appeared "out of the blue." Just there to "complicate matters" so to speak.
So Lord may well have thought that by attempting to render assistance he could have ended up making the situation even worse for all concerned.
 
"Unlikely in my opinion. The Californian seems not to have understood the gravity of the situation otherwise I think Captain Lord would have acted on it. The people in the lifeboats understood all too well what the situation was. Sinking ship plus over a thousand swimmers struggling in the ocean = an overturned/swamped boat if they rowed back into the mob.

A very different situation."

I beg to differ. Californian was but an oversized lifeboat in comparison to Titanic. What about fears that the [in retrospective what turned out to be somewhat imaginary] suction caused by the sinking of Titanic swallowing Californian?

Since a reaction of this sort was anticipated by many a sailor and such on the Titanic, could Lord et al not have been excused for having had similar concerns about such potential hazards a rescue-operation involved? In fact they may have felt unsafe enough already despite being miles away!
 
I am not here to point blaming fingers across history and drop wild assertions based on superstition and/or religious dogma, but try and assess the situation from an objective perspective. Come to terms with what I would have done under the circumstances. And I have to conclude time and again that Lord [if my assumptions are correct] did alright by not going to Titanic's aid. He did what I probably would have done in his shoes.
After all, we have concrete evidence to conclude that this guy did his best to PREVENT the disaster altogether by repeatedly warning Titanic about the ice. Then he is presented with an opportunity to risk his own life and vessel to attempt rescuing some of these people who apparently didn't take his warnings seriously. Or people rather, who were suddenly in such desperate in need of assistance mainly [he would have known] as a result of his warnings not being taken seriously.

I'm not so surprised that he declined.

Are you?
 
Another important fact is that Lord was [arguably] under strict orders [regulations] from his superiors NOT to attempt such rescue operations that may endanger his ship. {which, by the way, wasn't even his property to begin with!}
so I guess one important question is:
was Stanley Lord's primary responsibility as a captain
a) to ascertain the safety of his own ship and crew under the circumstances?
b) try to render assistance when he must have had good reason to believe this seriously went against alternative a?
 
here comes the tricky part
Lord was in a bizarre "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. He must have known that he was in the wrong place in the wrong time and he was going to have trouble no matter which course of action he chose.
Risking other people lives merely to "have a shot" at playing the hero?
 
Taner, a few points to address in your posts.
It must have been a matter of professional interest, if not anything else, for Lord to see how Titanic handled the situation that had stopped his ship for the night.
I'm not sure what you're driving at here. Are you suggesting he was aware that the ship under observation was the Titanic? We don't know that Lord was even aware that the Californian had visual contact with the Titanic - if indeed it did. The evidence suggests (e.g. Groves' testimony) that Lord believed the ship seen before he left the bridge was a tramp steamer.

There's no evidence that Lord showed any interest in what the Titanic's movements might be.
but try and assess the situation from an objective perspective
People are trying to be objective in this thread - they're working from evidence, not conjecture that has no support in the material we have.
Lord was in a bizarre "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. He must have known that he was in the wrong place in the wrong time and he was going to have trouble no matter which course of action he chose.
This pre-supposes that Lord was fully cognizant of what was going on, and consciously chose to ignore what was happening. Some writers have questioned whether the Bridge crew were imperative enough in relaying the information about the rockets and the ship they were morsing to him (e.g. Senan Molony). Other writers contend that he must have been fully aware of what was happening, or at least aware of the possibility of what the rockets signified. The point has not been resolved to the satisfaction of all, and it's yet another highly contentious point in this debate.

I hope you'll understand my next suggestion is intended constructively, in order to assist others who are following this debate. Your points are broken up over a dozen posts in succession - from a communications point of view, this disrupts the flow of your arguments and makes it less easy to read and absorb. I understand that in addressing different posts from different people you may choose a seperate post to respond to each, and that's fine (indeed, in some instances it makes sense), but the above sequence of posts could all be encompassed in one or two responses rather than broken up.

Samuel, thanks for those comments and further points on the nature of the Titanic/Californian exchange, which has often been misinterpreted and misrepresented. The idea that Lord and Evans abandoned the Titanic to her fate in a fit of pique is not one supported by what we know of the circumstances around this incident.

The matter of Phillips cutting off Evans has never been in doubt (even though the context and implications of it have been debated and re-evaluated from time to time), nor has it been questioned in this thread - it was the scenario Taner extrapolated from this incident that is under discussion.
 
I have to apologise for the disjointed presentation of my argument. But my views are a result of taking into consideration non-Titanic related case scenarios that unfolded in real life as well as what I have come to find out about the Titanic incident.
Suppose you are a clairvoyant who happened to be at WTC on that September 11, and knowing that the building was going to be attacked, you made your way out just as [or minutes after] the building was hit. Would you bother trying to stop all these firemen running past you to their deaths when you know all too well that their reaction to what you have to say will be: "Out of the way, you idiot. What are you? Nostradamus?"
 
I understand how the scenario I extrapolated from the top of my head appears largely a work of imagination at first sight. But I believe there is reasonable evidence to suspect that Californian's story [the hitherto official version of events] is largely fabricated. I've sincerely come to believe that the truth about the Californian is just as important to understand as the tragedy that unfolded on the Titanic. How's this for some fresh comments and further points on the nature of the Titanic/Californian exchange, which has often been misinterpreted and misrepresented?

Evans: Mate, you're headed for disaster!
Phillips: Shut up! Working cape race. Dear So and So. Paris was nice. Bought new umbrella. Regards to Uncle Moe!
 
Taner, I suggest you get a copy of "A Ship Accused" by Senan Molony for the most in-depth and unbiased research into the Californian's role in Titanic. I believe it will answer all your questions.

Arm-chair quarterbacking has its place, but not in the serious scientific and historical research we strive to provide here at Encyclopedia Titanica.

Kind regards,
Kyrila Scully
 
"pre-supposes that Lord was fully cognizant of what was going on, and consciously chose to ignore what was happening. Some writers have questioned whether the Bridge crew were imperative enough in relaying the information about the rockets and the ship they were morsing to him (e.g. Senan Molony). Other writers contend that he must have been fully aware of what was happening, or at least aware of the possibility of what the rockets signified. The point has not been resolved to the satisfaction of all, and it's yet another highly contentious point in this debate."

Since Lord sent wireless messages warning Titanic about the ice, it is safe to conclude that he was [at some point(s) in time on that 14 April 1912, at least] concerned about the welfare of the great ship. Otherwise why bother telling them about the ice, right?
And then, [according to him and his crew] he's fast asleep and entirely dismissive of all the signs relayed to him about the occurence of the disaster he was so eager to prevent a few hours earlier. How bizarre. Not even in his wildest dreams could he have thought that rockets fired by Titanic couldn't have meant she was sinking after a collision with an iceberg.

and then there's this:
Many a Titanic survivor's account cites the presence of a small ship [which most historians have to conclude was Californian.] How can people on Titanic see the tiny Californian but people on Californian fail to see the mighty Titanic? Even if they didn't have binoculars either [what's the story on that? Any binoculars aboard the Californian should constitute proof that they were liars!] at any rate, these were lookouts with nothing to look at but the disaster. And these people aboard the Titanic, it's not like they weren't making noise, keeping the lights on, firing rockets etc were they? How could have all this mayhem gone entirely unnoticed by the so-called "lookout on duty?"
 
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