Paul Rogers
Member
Thanks Dave.
Paul.
Paul.
The Ship That Never Sank
- Thread starter Ben Dover
- Start date
Pedro Soares
Member
That story is a complete lie. The Olympic was scrapped in 1935 and today you can see some of her elaborate carvings in the White Swan Hotel in England. The carving that shows Honour and Glory crowning Time resides in the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum in Ireland. It looks just like the one in Titanic s Grand Staircase.
Glad to be of service.
Glad to be of service.
Come on then, let's give this book the thorough...discussion that it deserves! I've just forced myself to sit through it a second time (it doesn't take long to read) and just find it so ridiculous it's beyond belief. Each chapter tries to build on what was 'proved' in the previous one, each chapter thus gets more and more silly until we get a 'what really happened' scenario at the end that tells us that the Titanic crashed into a ship that was there to rescue everyone in the first place!
Being serious for a moment, has anyone read anything else since by the same author, by way of backing himself up against the mass of criticism he earned himself? Opinions and theories are one thing, but to my mind this book should never have seen the light of day at all.
Being serious for a moment, has anyone read anything else since by the same author, by way of backing himself up against the mass of criticism he earned himself? Opinions and theories are one thing, but to my mind this book should never have seen the light of day at all.
Sam Brannigan
Member
Mike
I agree that Mr. Gardiners assertions are ludicrous but I have changed my mind about the book since my first disbelieving read.
Firstly, despite the content, it's a darn good read...if it was released as fiction it would have been brilliant.
Secondly, I have found out lots of interesting new information about the disaster from Mr Gardiners research. If you take away the conspiracy theory and a few twisted arguments there is an awful lot of valuable content in the book. It's a shame that it's almost impossible to quote the author as a source because it seems everyone will sneer at the worth of the quote, which is totally understandable given the basic premise of the book.
He does look at the disaster from a significant angle though, that of a total cynic who is not afraid to tread on eggshells and to offer new insights into the people involved in the disaster. He has given me quite a bit of food for thought.
An example of his Jekyll and Hyde manner of writing is his extremely informative chapter on the story of Charles Joughin and the survivors on Collapsible B.
I had always just accepted their story but Mr. Gardiner showed how unlikely it was in a very persuasive manner. If he had left the readers to ponder the issue and make up their own minds, it would have been excellent.
However he then went on to say how a "special" boat was launched for the rich first class passengers and was eventually swamped by struggling swimmers.
That kind of assumption ruins the book as serious study, but the author deserves praise for casting doubt on widely held beliefs.
Why do we accept the stories of Lightoller and Gracie? The chances are they are true but I am sure the picture on the night the Titanic sank was very very different from what we believe today.
The journalistic frenzy to get "good copy" at the time, the changing story of survivors as the years passed (check out the thread on Eva Hart),eyewitness errors (the break up) and the human need to paint oneself in as good a light as possible in an era when moral integrity was everything have all contributed to the story of the Titanic....along with the truth.
Remember, their was no media of any kind (apart from the wireless on the Titanic the night she sank and total trust must be placed in eyewitness accounts to get the full story.
Well, I for one don't believe it all and Mr Gardiner has opened my eyes in many ways.
Regards
Sam
I agree that Mr. Gardiners assertions are ludicrous but I have changed my mind about the book since my first disbelieving read.
Firstly, despite the content, it's a darn good read...if it was released as fiction it would have been brilliant.
Secondly, I have found out lots of interesting new information about the disaster from Mr Gardiners research. If you take away the conspiracy theory and a few twisted arguments there is an awful lot of valuable content in the book. It's a shame that it's almost impossible to quote the author as a source because it seems everyone will sneer at the worth of the quote, which is totally understandable given the basic premise of the book.
He does look at the disaster from a significant angle though, that of a total cynic who is not afraid to tread on eggshells and to offer new insights into the people involved in the disaster. He has given me quite a bit of food for thought.
An example of his Jekyll and Hyde manner of writing is his extremely informative chapter on the story of Charles Joughin and the survivors on Collapsible B.
I had always just accepted their story but Mr. Gardiner showed how unlikely it was in a very persuasive manner. If he had left the readers to ponder the issue and make up their own minds, it would have been excellent.
However he then went on to say how a "special" boat was launched for the rich first class passengers and was eventually swamped by struggling swimmers.
That kind of assumption ruins the book as serious study, but the author deserves praise for casting doubt on widely held beliefs.
Why do we accept the stories of Lightoller and Gracie? The chances are they are true but I am sure the picture on the night the Titanic sank was very very different from what we believe today.
The journalistic frenzy to get "good copy" at the time, the changing story of survivors as the years passed (check out the thread on Eva Hart),eyewitness errors (the break up) and the human need to paint oneself in as good a light as possible in an era when moral integrity was everything have all contributed to the story of the Titanic....along with the truth.
Remember, their was no media of any kind (apart from the wireless on the Titanic the night she sank and total trust must be placed in eyewitness accounts to get the full story.
Well, I for one don't believe it all and Mr Gardiner has opened my eyes in many ways.
Regards
Sam
Tracy Smith
Member
I agree, Sam. I've got a copy of this book and have kept it mainly for his insights about Stanley Lord. There is much interesting information about him in this book. Too bad he had to put that ship switcheroo nonsense into the book.
Michael Tennaro
Member
Mike Bull Asked:
has anyone read anything else since by the same author, by way of backing himself up against
the mass of criticism he earned himself?
Hi Mike,
this is actually the author's second book on this subject. the first book he wrote he co-authored with Dan Van der Vat. the English edition is called The Riddle of the Titanic; while the American version is called The Titanic Conspiracy.
hope this helps,
Michael (TheManInBlack) T
TitanicBookSite.com
has anyone read anything else since by the same author, by way of backing himself up against
the mass of criticism he earned himself?
Hi Mike,
this is actually the author's second book on this subject. the first book he wrote he co-authored with Dan Van der Vat. the English edition is called The Riddle of the Titanic; while the American version is called The Titanic Conspiracy.
hope this helps,
Michael (TheManInBlack) T
TitanicBookSite.com
James Hill
Member
anyone read this i would give it okay cause its a little far from the truth
a few examples (the author is Robin Gardiner)
he says that...
officers were shooting passengers in order to get attention.
the ALC restraunt staff were detaned in the 2nd class dining room.
and how should i say this
explains how she might not have struck an iceberg at all it could have been a sailing vessel,tramp steamer or auxiliry cruiser?not to mention the Olmpic Titanic insurance scam story which when the wreck was discoverd proved untrue.i would not recomend this book to much but i would to experts to point out rights and wrongs. decide for yourself.however i am recomending his brilliant History Of The White Star Line im half way through it exelent a book for everyone the best thing you can get if you are researching on the line.
a few examples (the author is Robin Gardiner)
he says that...
officers were shooting passengers in order to get attention.
the ALC restraunt staff were detaned in the 2nd class dining room.
and how should i say this
explains how she might not have struck an iceberg at all it could have been a sailing vessel,tramp steamer or auxiliry cruiser?not to mention the Olmpic Titanic insurance scam story which when the wreck was discoverd proved untrue.i would not recomend this book to much but i would to experts to point out rights and wrongs. decide for yourself.however i am recomending his brilliant History Of The White Star Line im half way through it exelent a book for everyone the best thing you can get if you are researching on the line.
Mark Chirnside
Member
Hi James!
however i am recomending his brilliant History Of The White Star Line im half way through it exelent a book for everyone the best thing you can get if you are researching on the line.
Are you *sure*? Believe me, take some of Gardiner's 'fact's with a pinch of salt, especially those on the Majestic (II). You'd do better with Paul Louden-Brown's work.
One real annoyance is the use of 'Majestic[sup]2[/sup]' rather than the proper numeral.
You may find this thread of interest:
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5671/7695.html?1009986593
Best regards,
Mark.
however i am recomending his brilliant History Of The White Star Line im half way through it exelent a book for everyone the best thing you can get if you are researching on the line.
Are you *sure*? Believe me, take some of Gardiner's 'fact's with a pinch of salt, especially those on the Majestic (II). You'd do better with Paul Louden-Brown's work.
One real annoyance is the use of 'Majestic[sup]2[/sup]' rather than the proper numeral.
You may find this thread of interest:
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5671/7695.html?1009986593
Best regards,
Mark.
Dave Gittins
Member
Gardiner's books should be treated as the composer Anton Bruckner treated a review of one of his works. He wrote to the critic----
Sir,
I am sitting in the smallest room of my house.
I have your review before me.
It will soon be behind me.
A sad feature of the Titanic scene is the ease with which the most nonsensical material can be published.
Sir,
I am sitting in the smallest room of my house.
I have your review before me.
It will soon be behind me.
A sad feature of the Titanic scene is the ease with which the most nonsensical material can be published.
Mark Chirnside
Member
Hi Dave!
You make a good point here:
I would add to this my own observation that it is even sadder that Gardiner's book became the fourth-most sold Titanic work in the late 1990s. That's even above Eaton & Haas! I bought a copy and found it very useful whenever I was feeling depressed -- I'd just read it and be laughing in stitches.
Best regards,
Mark.
You make a good point here:
I would add to this my own observation that it is even sadder that Gardiner's book became the fourth-most sold Titanic work in the late 1990s. That's even above Eaton & Haas! I bought a copy and found it very useful whenever I was feeling depressed -- I'd just read it and be laughing in stitches.
Best regards,
Mark.
Kyrila Scully
Member
That's because Gardiner's book was cheaper.
All the best,
Kyrila
P.S. Take it any way you want to.
All the best,
Kyrila
P.S. Take it any way you want to.
Michael Tennaro
Member
actually, I find this phenomenon most interesting, and rather depressing. Gardiner is certainly one of the best selling authors of modern Titanic books in the UK. on our side of the pond one of the most successful modern authors, perhaps the most successful, is Charles Pellegrino.
there are not a lot of similarities between the two authors, but they both sell lots & lots of books despite the fact that their books not well thought of by most readers who have studied the subject in depth (no pun intended).
I certainly don't begrudge these men the success they have attained,
there are not a lot of similarities between the two authors, but they both sell lots & lots of books despite the fact that their books not well thought of by most readers who have studied the subject in depth (no pun intended).
I certainly don't begrudge these men the success they have attained,
Tracy Smith
Member
The National Enquirer sells lots and lots of copies, too......
Dave Gittins
Member
Some time ago, an eminent Australian businessman lamented that if he advertised products he didn't have, or that didn't do what he claimed they would do, he would rightfully be prosecuted. However, any stupid or unscrupulous writer could publish a book of insufferable twaddle and swindle the gullible. There are quite a few of these around outside the Titanic field, for instance the recent book about the WTC attack.
Apparently freedom of expression includes freedom to swindle, provided it's presented as research.
Apparently freedom of expression includes freedom to swindle, provided it's presented as research.
Damon Marcus
Guest
Hey everyone again
Damn i love this site, anyways i have many, many books my favorite being "the discovery of the titanic" by Dr Ballard. So as and when i see interesting books concerning the titanic i normally snap them up, and this leads me to - "titanic, the ship that never sank" by R. Gardiner. As amusing as this book is i am curious to hear what the fellow users of this site have to say about a book like this?
Is it cashing in on the Titanic name or is it the shocking truth (yes i realise the latter is nothing more than a farce)
Anyways i get very annoyed when i find books and other such things simply making money off of the Titanic name.
Your thoughts please?
Damon!
Damn i love this site, anyways i have many, many books my favorite being "the discovery of the titanic" by Dr Ballard. So as and when i see interesting books concerning the titanic i normally snap them up, and this leads me to - "titanic, the ship that never sank" by R. Gardiner. As amusing as this book is i am curious to hear what the fellow users of this site have to say about a book like this?
Is it cashing in on the Titanic name or is it the shocking truth (yes i realise the latter is nothing more than a farce)
Anyways i get very annoyed when i find books and other such things simply making money off of the Titanic name.
Your thoughts please?
Damon!
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