Titanic's bow name plates

David,

Sorry, I should have pointed out that this discussion actually began in the "Ballard's New Expedition" forum, or whatever it's called-- a separate thread. You might check there for earlier posts I made.

Ken
 
To all those the emailed me privately about the Titanic’s port side name plate (wanting more) — I used ultraviolet light on the high resolution image of Titanic in dry-dock (than inverted the colour) in February 1912 to look for the ships name plate.
Incised letters. (?) This image shows features on the hull as samll as 1 inch.
People have gone spell-board over this conundrum.
[more later than]
87416.jpg
 
We are all debating at which point the boat had it's name painted on the port bow!As I said earlier,the ideal would be on the shell plater's bench,then the floor for the caulker,then the painter,job done,hang up the plate.If expediency rules,then launch the boat & we will get the name on later.Apparently White star line wern't all that fussy about a naming ceremoney,so what's the big deal?How can you name a boat that hasn't got a name,purely aesethic.After the boat is launched & towed to the fitting out wharf we have to get a plater,his helper,a caulker & then a painter,port & starboard 80' to 90' above the ground.No cherrypickers in those days,consequently a lot of staging req'd,money!I'll let you decide.
regards.
dw.
 
David,
At least one photograph indicates that when the plate (in question) was raised into position during construction — the name T I T A N I C was not incised into it. By early May 1911, the name (with all the letters) was still not there as frame H-1560 shows. The point is quantified by seeing the absence of the letter -C- where it eventually is known to be positioned. (this tells us importantly that 1 and likely more letters were incised after the plate had been raised) I find it difficult to even consider that when the plate left the shop; only certain letters had been completed.
In the photographs that followed, (H-1561 & H-1561a) likely days prior to launch, the letters are clearly there and correctly spaced. The infamous glass plate “retoucher” clearly did his handy work directly over the existing letters he most likely seen on the plate.
The name of the ship is clearly seen at outfitting in September 1911, on film footage the following month and again while in dry-dock several months later. (February, 1912) The letters simply had not been painted.
Jumping back for a second; when Titanic was actually launched on May 31 — her name was not visible, but beyond reasonable doubt the 7 incised letters were present.
At what point the letters had been painted (making them visible) was most likely done after the ship received her last lick of paint at Belfast. It may well be that it was only done at the eleventh hour while tied up at Southampton.
The discussion was also about whether the letters had been raised or incised. Again, the photographs (and the Nomadic letters) have provided the definitive answer.
I posted that last image above because people had ask me (privately via email) about why the name could not be seen in the Feb, 1912 image. So I fiddle a@#$%’d around for an hour today (with the high resolution image) and found the answer. The name was here.
The thread also touched on whether there was a possibly the name had been applied in sectionalized plates. In the end - there was nothing of note found to substantiate this speculation.
Beyond what has been already discussed (and speculated on) by some of the best researchers in this particular field, the thread can only start to chase its own tail. I’m not saying the discussion has reached its terminus — far from that. However, it does appear to have accomplished what it set out to achieve.
Because of the input from everyone that has posted within this thread, we now know more than what we knew prior to it. That’s progressive research.
It’s like the images below which the left shows the area of where the starboard bow name plate was found and the right where the port side on is.
Both images have received that exact same photographic enhancement processes and (several) image correction filters. One shows the name and one does not. One side has no more favorable lighting conditions to the other. It’s a high resolution image taken from a glass photograph plate. On the hull (under extreme resolution of 1200 dpi) bird droppings and chalk markings on the plates themselves can be seen clearly.
Why is it visible on one side and not on the other?
I’d bet my prized bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey it isn’t there. (starboard side) And that’s why I believe it was never found on the wreck because it was only painted on. They were likely that pressed by schedule (both time & tide) prior to launch and later during outfitting (and further compounded by the disruption coursed by the diversion of men and materials when Olympic returned back to Belfast in October and again in March 1912) that it was not seen as a priority.


87423.jpg
 
Steve:
To answer the question "how" the name was applied to the plates seems a worthy endeavor.
I'm having some trouble trying to come up with
much of a reason why the "when" is important.
I think someone asked jokingly whether this had something to do with your rebuttal to the "switch theory". Didn't you dispense with that in your book? I didn't write a book but I dispensed with that theory some time ago. So, why are we belaboring the "when"? Just curious.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
Steve,

You summed everything up rather well above. Amen. However, I would doubt that Titanic went to sea without her starboard bow name etched in before painting. If her port side and stern names were completed, why not that on her starboard bow? Your argument is that it was perhaps less of a priority and simply was left to be done at some future date, I presume. But the painters NEED that etched border as a guide.

Anyway, there are several decent starboard views after launch and during fitting out. I don't have time to examine what I have closely at the moment, but perhaps someone might see a hint of the name and report it here.

I think I see a faint indication of the lettering in the above lefthand image...but you're right: the lighting is the same as the righthand image, so why aren't the letters more obvious. Interesting. But I'll bet it's just a fluke.

Ken
 
I agree with Ken. I thought I might be the only one seeing some faint lines on the starboard side image. One problem is with the negative itself.
There seems to be a lot of junk on the starboard side of the negative which could obscure the name. Even the port side is somewhat faint. Add the blotches on the negative and it could "disappear" rather easily.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
I think the letters are there in that Stbd. image too, though I think Steve should be praised for going at this so in-depth. I've certainly learnt from it!
 
According to 401 (Titanic) Rigging plan's the name was to be cut into the bow and stern. It was painted on by one of our deceased BTTS member's uncle.
If I remember rightly the name TITANIC was 12 inches on the bow and 18 inches on the stern with the port of registry (LIVERPOOL) 12 inches.

PS try Robinson's Bar in Belfast and you see a lot of Titanic artefacts including menus and the lifeboat sign,

regards

James Alexander Carlisle
 
During the long pan down the hull in the Pathe newsreel footage, does it show whether deck B had the irregular (viz. cabin) arrangement of windows, or the promenade deck arrangement?

Also, is there any way to get a more accurate date for the clips of the Titanic?

Cheers

Paul

 
Thanks! Can anyone direct me to any still photos of the slow pan down the hull? British Pathe is being very very s-l-o-w in processing my web order.

Thanks

Paul

 
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