What would YOU do?

[N. D. Risener]

What would I do? Here's a thought. Help John Jacob Astor and his wife find seats in a lifeboat. Early on while most passengers didn't even realize the situation was serious and lifeboat space was available because people didn't want to get in. Maybe even include their beloved dog if there was space and no other people wanted to go. Astor might be very grateful when we reached New York, if you know what I mean.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Help John Jacob Astor and his wife find seats in a lifeboat. Maybe even include their beloved dog if there was space and no other people wanted to go. Astor might be very grateful when we reached New York, if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean. But JJ himself would not come out as a hero if you had succeeded in rescuing him. More than likely, he would have been vilified by the press 10 times worse than Ismay and no one would have believed his story of an unknown saviour. Under those circumstances, methinks Astor would have been more inclined to pretend that he did not even know you.

 

[N. D. Risener]

I'm going to quibble with you on this. If J J Astor made it into a lifeboat the fact of his survival would not automatically make him a villain. In the scenario Astor and wife get in very early. He wasn't depriving any women and children of a seat because there was no one else standing by who wanted aboard. If he hadn't boarded then the boat would simply have been lowered with an extra empty seat. The officer in charge, undoubtedly Murdoch, was trying to put people in the boat so Astor was merely following the officer's directions and incidentally being very concerned with the care of his pregnant wife. Hardly the stuff of villainy and not at all likely the press would have thought so.

And nothing would need be said about an "unknown Savior." Notation: I was trained in American spelling. Astor made it to one of the first boats lowered and therefore survived. End of story. Of course the press was frantic for anything they could get their hands on so it might have come out that some third person had persuaded Astor to make this wise decision. And if the press then learned that Astor had subsequently snubbed that third person it would then, under those circumstances become more than likely they would have vilified him. If Astor had really wanted to quietly be rid of that third person the wisest course would have been to pay him off.

But Astor was a real person with a record of who and what he was. Would the historical man really have disdained a man who had just saved his life? And another factor is that Astor himself had suffered considerable rejection from the social set because of his divorce and remarriage to a much younger woman. The evidence as I understand it is that he was openly grateful to those who still stood by him, and this might have put him in a mood to also be grateful to a man who had done him a tremendous service.

I wouldn't ask for much. A jug of wine, a loaf of bread and 50 thou would do it.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I wouldn't ask for much. A jug of wine, a loaf of bread and 50 thou would do it.

If you're getting JJ into an early boat with lots of room, save a place for Benji Guggenheim. I'll help him into his tuxedo and get him in with his mistress. I don't even want his bread and wine; 100 thou would set me up for life and a bit in 1912.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

One of the things of which I have wondered.:
If you could go back in time could you really change history ?
What happens to all the history books that tell Astor stayed on the Titanic, later died , etc.?

 

[Robert T. Paige]

If you're getting JJ into an early boat with lots of room, save a place for Benji Guggenheim. I'll help him into his tuxedo and get him in with his mistress. I don't even want his bread and wine; 100 thou would set me up for life and a bit in 1912.

Would you include Guggenheim's mistress but not his valet ?

 

[Robert T. Paige]

One of the things of which I have wondered.:
If you could go back in time could you really change history ?
What happens to all the history books that tell Astor stayed on the Titanic, later died , etc.?

Just think of all the after effects.
JJ Astor lives.
Maybe there would be more children.
Maybe JJ Astor divorces Madeline.
Maybe JJ Astor marries someone else
Maybe Madeline marries someone else
Et cetera, et cetera, and so forth
LOL

 

[Robert T. Paige]

Forgive me Arun, I was being a bit facetious! I agree if you really wanted to speak to someone possibly Mr. Andrews would be good bet.

If I may add an alternate scenario for discussion?

You find yourself in the first class smoking room in the evening the day before the collision. You are having a brandy with some of the other passengers and telling them of your time travelling exploits. Everyone is fascinated and hanging on your every word. You've just finished explaining how the motor car will revolutionize land transport when a gentlemen leans forward and says: "Tell me dear boy, what does the future hold for this wonderful vessel? Would anyone know of her from the year you speak of - 2018?"

You think for a moment, draw a breath, and say to your audience: "Gentlemen, I can say without a doubt that we are currently sailing aboard the most famous vessel in history."

There are gasps of breath and at least one dropped monocole from the assembled passengers. The same person from before asks:

"I say, what excellent news! Can you tell me what happens in her career for her to be so remembered?"

What do you tell them?

If you will pardon the audacity of this post as being a bit - let us say - fanciful. LOL
Say you are in that First Class Smoking Room..
Say you have brought along your Tablet , charged up 100% and with plenty of spare batteries, for note keeping.
Say you have also recorded "A Night To Remember" along with all the other "Titanic" movies.
What would happen if you showed them to all those gentlemen in that First Class Smoking Room ?

 

[Robert T. Paige]

That's interesting. Since the man (you, me, anyone) would know what exactly is going to happen, the temptation so stay on board and find out the truth about controversial issues will be there. 'Sneaking up' on to the roof of the Offer's quarters might not have been possible but like you, I'd try to get the Collapsible lifeboats A & B set-up by talking to one of the officers, (perhaps Moody since he got onto the roof at some stage) on some pretext, pretending that I knew a lot about lifeboats and sea travel. If I succeeded, then I'd perhaps wait till 'A' was launched or floated off.

Meanwhile, knowing what was to come later, I'd they to dress-up as warmly as possible, paying particular attention to protecting my feet and lower legs. Even with the sides-up, Collapsible A might get a bit waterlogged.

Preface all of the below with "If there was such a thing as a "Time Traveler." . LOL

On second thought from my previous posts , I think I would do all that if I knew I could switch back to the present at any time if I thought I was getting in or even near danger . IMHO it would depend on that as to how much I would attempt to do .

Bottom Line :
IMHO I think it would be impossible for a time traveler to change history that is already in the books and archives . Of course that might be debatable .

For example:
What if you had been watching "A Night To Remember " this evening and decided to go back to 1912 and Titanica the next morning ? Do you believe you could save the ship and all those lives....or change anything for that matter ?

For example , what if you were that time traveler and somehow manage to convince the Captain and all the officers to take a different course ? The ship doesn't hit any icebergs , maybe arrives in New York a little later but safely and lives a long and uneventful life until finally being scrapped alongside Olympic .

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Well, my question was completely hypothetical and so logic really does not come into it. Moreover, our man is not a 'conventional' time traveller of the kind you usually see in films - he did not do that consciously. As I said, he wakes up in a Second Class cabin of the Titanic one minute after the ship collided with the iceberg without any idea of how he got there but with full and detailed knowledge (being an avid ET member from 2018) of what's going to unravel over the next few hours.

More importantly, he has no mod cons from the 21st century and does not know if he is going to get back to 2018 at any stage. So, in his mindset, he has to make the best of the situation that he found himself in on board the Titanic; whether that includes trying to get more people to survive than actually did is up to him.........and you.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

I think I am beginning to understand your viewpoint and how mine differs.
I will have to admit my idea of a time traveler is influenced by what I see in the films.
My idea of the ideal time traveler is one who has some kind of a control device where he can control where he is going and to what date and time he is going and has some sort of emergency control where he can immediately get back to the present if he gets into any kind of trouble.
But I see what you are getting at.
"Our man" doesn't have these - he doesn't, know how he got there or how or if he is going to get back to now - it''s probably 2019 by the time you read this.
So my answer is still the same - I would take the first boat off there and then see if I could be of any help on the Carpathia - other than just staying out of the way.
I would probably have to go job hunting when we got back to New York before. or if I couldn't
get back to 2019 ! LOL
So that is my answer to "What would you do ? "

I think that was the situation in the old "Titanic Adventure Out Of Time" video game. The "our man" doesn't know how he got there other than from the bomb that blew up his flat and I don't remember how he got back. Maybe someone with a better memory of the game than mine can answer those questions ?

 

[David G. Brown]

Fun to speculate, but may I remind us ll once again -- history does not reveal its alternatives.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Aaron_2016]

You wake-up in a second class cabin at 23:41 hours on Sunday 14th April 1912 with no idea how you got there but will full realization of what is going to happen in the next 2 hours and 39 minutes. What would you do then?

You are a 30-something man travelling alone by the looks of it.

- Try to tell key people about what is going to happen and how best to avoid it and save as many lives as possible.

- Keep quiet and as inconspicuous as possible, find a place in one of Murdoch's starboard lifeboats and save yourself.

- Remain on-board as long as possible, trying to find out the truth about various controversial issues like Captain Smith's effectiveness as the ship sank, Boatswain Nichol's fate, how long and what music the band played, shots in the dark, the break-up etc and then try to find a place on Collapsible A or B?

- Something else?

I would open the aft gangway doors and direct as many passengers as I could to that section of the ship. The officers had given orders for the lifeboats to remain close to the open gangway doors with the expectation that the passengers that were below decks would climb down rope ladders from the open gangway doors and into the lifeboats waiting close by. Sadly the doors were apparently never opened, or at least not opened enough to be visibly seen from the lifeboats at sea, except for one occasion which was later recalled by 4th officer Boxhall as he witnessed a crowd of people standing helplessly by one of the aft gangway doors and he decided to row away from them. He recalled this event many years later in 1962 but failed to mention it (accidentally or intentionally) at the official Inquiry.

Therefore, I would have immediately opened as many gangway doors as possible in the aft section (primarily on the starboard side as the ship listed over to port) and I would yell out to the starboard lifeboats that there were crowds of people waiting at the gangway doors. I would also try to assist the passengers down the rope ladders and possibly find additional rope and mail sacks to help the children down into the lifeboats.


I believe the evacuation was supposed to be as follows:

- Captain Smith ordered the crew to take their positions on the boat deck and had them swing out the lifeboats and prepare them for lowering.

- He then ordered the passengers to go down to A-deck so that they would not interfere with the crew's work on the boat deck, but Mr. Woolner could see the forward glass windows on the promenade deck were closed. He informed the captain and the captain ordered the passengers to return to the boat deck and proceed to get in the lifeboats from the boat deck, which no doubt caused great hindrance to the crew who were now trying to do their work with hundreds of passengers crowding around them and asking them questions. (I would try to open the forward glass windows so that Captain Smith's original orders could be carried out.)

- Captain Smith ordered several lifeboats to row towards a mystery ship off the port bow, off load the survivors, and then return to the Titanic to pick more passengers. (I would try to convince the captain that the mystery ship was not steaming towards them and all efforts to row towards that ship should be abandoned and that the lifeboats should instead remain close to the gangway doors which hopefully would now be open with rope ladders ready for use.)

Owing to the darkness of the boat deck the passengers and crew had mistakenly believed the last lifeboats that were lowered down from the aft section of the boat deck were the last boats left on the ship and they waited in the aft section without realizing that there were several more boats (including the collapsible boats) all the way forward near the bridge. (I would try to persuade the passengers that there were still more boats waiting to be filled all the way forward.)

Hopefully my efforts would have saved more lives. One final thing - I would make sure the ship's official papers and log book were placed into a lifeboat.



.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

Fun to speculate, but may I remind us ll once again -- history does not reveal its alternatives.

-- David G. Brown

Yes indeed. ! It is fun to also speculate :
What if - Someone does manage to go back in time to Titanic in the near or far future - they could not and would not change a thing......at least that's my IMHO......

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I would open the aft gangway doors and direct as many passengers as I could to that section of the ship.........................................................
Therefore, I would have immediately opened as many gangway doors as possible in the aft section (primarily on the starboard side as the ship listed over to port) and I would yell out to the starboard lifeboats that there were crowds of people waiting at the gangway doors. I would also try to assist the passengers down the rope ladders and possibly find additional rope and mail sacks to help the children down into the lifeboats.

I would try to persuade the passengers that there were still more boats waiting to be filled all the way forward.

I would make sure the ship's official papers and log book were placed into a lifeboat.

.

But how would you be able to do all that as as an ordinary Second Class passenger? You might be able to try the part highlighted but then crew would have intervened and might even have had you restrained for spreading panic.

But as to getting the gangway doors open or getting out the ship's papers, who would you approach to get these done? Wilde? Murdoch? Captain Smith?

My point is that as an adult male in Second Class, you would have the lowest chance of all age/sex/position groups to save yourself, let alone others in the first place. Of course, you could still try if you wished.