Why didn't Lorraine Allison get in a boat?

[M.A. Yollick]

I hope it was not due to the tendency of some fathers and not a few mothers (even today, but more so in that time period) to place their sons in importance above daughters. As is with daycare today, imo, people who employ nannies and maids to do all the care-taking of their children will be somewhat distanced from their children, even though they may love them (as compared to parents who are completely involved with the care of their children). I wonder if they had had their son with them and they were searching for their daughter, would they have thought then to put their son safely into a lifeboat first.
Apart from that, it does seem peculiar that Hudson would not put his wife and daughter into a boat and proceed to find the servant and his son on his own.

 

[Stefan Christiansson]

I have always wondered why so many sources state that there were no child-casualties in first and second class. We all know Lorraine Allison didn't make it.

 

[Gary.J Bell]

Hi
I as has many im sure, read lots about the unfortunate Allison family that night. But all i ever seem to read is how Trevor was snatched away by his nanny Miss.Cleaver. And how the family spent the rest of the night searching for him.
But didnt any of the other passengers see them or speak to them that night? did noone help them? was there any reports made by surviving passengers about what happened to them?

 

[John Clifford]

Hi Gary.

I recall that Walter Lord, in "A Night To Remember", mentioned how the Allisons were last seen standing on the Promenade Deck at 2:05 AM.
Lord also noted that "no amount of force or coercion could prompt Bess Allison to enter a lifeboat", the idea that she would not leave the ship until she knew Trevor was safe, nor would she let Lorraine out of her sight.

I believe, but am not sure, that Daniel Butler, in "Unsinkable", chronicled how Bess and Lorraine got in to one boat, but then got out, after hearing that Hudson was on the other side of the ship, and that when they reached him, all the boats were gone. It has also been stated that 2nd Class Passenger Edwina Troutt noticed Bess Allison was seen as rather hysterical during the sinking.

Archibald Gracie, in his "Survivor's Story" (page 40), stated "Mrs. Allison and Miss Allison could have been saved had they not chosen to remain on the ship. They refused to enter the lifeboat unless Mr. Allison was allowed to go with them. This statement was made in my presence by Mrs. H. A. Cassobeer, of New York, who relayed it to Mrs. Allison's brother, Mr. G. F. Johnston, and myself....".
Colonel Gracie then goes on to pay tribute to Bess Allison, noting a "...heroic mould in which she was cast....", as he compared her with Ida Strauss.

I do not know if Major Peuchen ever mentioned seeing the Allisons during the sinking. He and Harry Molson had dined with the Allisons, with little Lorraine in attendance, on the night of April 14th.

 

[Gary.J Bell]

Yes, but why didnt anyone help them? surely someone must have seen Miss.Cleaver? It all seems like chaos onboard that ship that night.

 

[mary mason]

well, everybody was trying to save themselves from death, so i would pretty much say it was chaos that night.
i think its easy to sit here now and ask these questions, but we weren't there.
no-body knew at the time that the Allisons hadn't given Alice permission to take Trevor. (do we even know for sure that they didnt know where he was?)
alot of people say that Alice "snatched" Trevor, but she was employed as his nanny, therefore she was paid to care for him. and that is what she did, she saved that little boy's life.

 

[Gary.J Bell]

"Do we even know for sure that they didnt know where he was?)
Whats that mean? they knew he was in a lifeboat yet wondered around the decks till the end???
I know all we can do is speculate as to what the Allison's were thinking, yet i can hardly see the backing for that explanation.

 

[mary mason]

well you do not know for sure that they did not know that Trevor was safe.
Archibald Gracie, said that Bess would not get into a boat because her husband was not allowed to enter.
i never said that they "just wandered around the decks till the end" please do not assume that is what i meant.
yes, we can only speculate as to what they were thinking, and that is all i'm doing. i found your last post quite offensive and i'd appreciate it if you be a bit more respectful.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Gary, part of the problem here is that apparently the Allisons didn't know that Trevor was safe in a boat. One doesn't spend time searching around for somebody when one knows where that somebody is. They may have found out, but if they did, it was way too late to do them any good.

 

[Phillip Gowan]

My personal feeling is that regardless of what happened *later* with Alice Cleaver and Trevor, Hudson was solely responsible (one might say irresponsible) for not at least investigating Miss Cleaver's repeated attempts to warn him that the ship was in peril, even getting angry with her. Whether or not she thought Trevor might be some sort of insurance for her if she saved him, she did try--more than once--to warn the family. Because of that, it has always been my personal opinion that Hudson alone was responsible for the deaths of himself, wife and daughter even if they refused to leave the ship *later* because they were searching for Trevor.

Alice Cleaver, although frequently made the villain over all that happened, later was to contact Walter Lord and did not really hide the fact she had been on Titanic and I think that may suggest that she did not feel guilty for what happened. She married later and had three loving daughters and a successful marriage and I think it not insignificant that she named her first daughter Lorraine.

Just my $.02.

Phil

 

[Inger Sheil]

Interesting insight there, Phil - and a very good demonstration of how different two sides to a story can be. Haven't you also found other instances in your research where the canonical version doesn't seem to represent the whole truth? The background to the Graham/Shutes story springs to mind...Not to mention Hichens.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Hi John,

"I do not know if Major Peuchen ever mentioned seeing the Allisons during the sinking."

He did see Bess and Lorriane on the port side of the boat deck, before he got into lifeboat # 6. When he was interviewed for the Montreal Daily Star, he had said this to say:

"Mrs Allison could have gotten away in perfect safety," Major Arthur Peuchen told the Montreal Daily Star "But somebody told her Mr Allison was in a boat being lowered on the opposite side of the deck, and with her little daughter she rushed away from the boat. Apparently she reached the other side to find that Mr Allison was not there. Meanwhile our boat had put off."

In an earlier posting above, Kris Muhvic mentions Peuchen in his post:

""Major Arthur Peuchen, of Montreal, one of the survivors, standing near the little fellow, who, swathed in blankets,lay blinking at his nurse, described the death of Mrs. Allison. She had gone to the deck without her husband, and, frantically seeking him, was directed by an officer to the other side of the ship. She failed to find Mr. Allison and was qickley hustled into one of the collapsible life-boats, and when last seen by Major Peuchen she was toppling out of the half-swamped boat.""

Hi Phil,

I concur with Inger, that is a fascinating way of looking at it. Had they known that Trevor was safe, things may have turned out differently. If only...

Best regards,

Jason

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Thanks Inger and Jason--yes, too often there is a "camp" version of a story that just gets accepted and never questioned. As I said above, I believe that Alice Cleaver bears no responsibility whatsoever for what happened to the rest of the Allison family. And even though Hichens was certainly no saint in anyone's opinion, I don't think he was mean and cruel in the lifeboat just to be mean and cruel. I suspect the heroine, Molly, and some of the other American women provoked some of the responses they got and with Hichens it became sort a of contest to see just how cruel he could get with them.

The Graham/Shutes story has yet to be told--but there too, real hard evidence doesn't completely bear out the accepted stories.

Phil

 

[mary mason]

Gary,
i have sent you a private message. I do not wish to turn this thread into a personal slanging match.

Phil,
i agree 100% that Alice was not to blame for the deaths of Hudson, Bess and Loraine.
Bess' mother blamed her, saying that it could have been Bess and Hudson who were saved instead of Alice and William Faulkner, although she was trying to blame someone for her greif, it was hardly Alice's fault.

Alice was employed to care for Trevor and that is what she did.

 

[Inger Sheil]

Gary, I suggest you withdraw that remark and re-read the rules of the board. Admonishments like that constitute a personal attack.