Cam Houseman
Member
and, he SAW Third Class people behind some kind of barrier on his way up.
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Electricity During Sinking
- Thread starter Gloria Lyons
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- electricity lighting sinking
Incony
Member
it is bugging me... because i cant determine the ladder ways. but i also see, that he must have been able to use 2nd class access points, and given the finality of his journey i dont think anyone at that time would be trying to enforce class law, i guess, there must have been maintenance access hatches into the funnels, how Alfred White knew them, isnt made clear, since why would someone in electrical engineering ever need to go inside a funnel? to service lights perhaps, but they were brand new... i do think he knew the route to the emergency dynamo`s, which really rakes him through second class, but if he saw third class passengers through closed access gates, it does put him very close to funnel four... i am mystified though, did he go up the outside or inside of the funnel, and if he went inside, how was that possible? wouldnt hatches need key access, or were they just turn lock.
Incony
Member
This image shows a ladder inside the main incoming air for the main engines, so its clean air and separate from the galley flue tubes, but if Alfred Used that, he could only come out at the top of the funnel... is that where he was when it fell? how did he reach that ladder? through a hatch? from where... you sense what i am trying to understand.. why did he go up the funnel, having reached the deck... ? and how did he get to the ladder access - his route.
Keith H
Member
The electrical switch board was located at he rear of the turbine room on the orlop deck level ,another way up would have been a spiral staircase located at the top rear of the engine room that went all the way up to the boat deck.
Cam Houseman
Member
oh! Thanks Keith for this info!
Incony
Member
Yes, ive just been studying the deck plans, the electrical store rooms were above the generators aft...on E Deck... assuming he could reach E deck from the top of the Turbine room, would give him access to the base of the spiral staircase in the corner, but it doesnt tally with him seeing closed gates into third class... , since if he took that spiral staircase he would be in first and second class,? but supposing he took the spiral staircase under funnel four he would come out on the raised roof over the first class smoke room on the boat deck, he could reach the external ladders on the funnel there, if he wanted to... but i think his view aft would be good enough to see the fracturing of the decks forward between him and funnel three, at least until the lights failed, given that the watertight door into the turbine room was closed, it would be steam pipe fracture in the engine room, not the turbine room.. that stopped the lights. The damage to that part of the stern was on impact with the sea bed.. and as we know, that watertight door is closed... it wouldn't stop the flooding since that would have been as the hull fractured and the whole forward part of funnel four came adrift.. water would have entered the turbine room through fractured pipe and airways from above.. it was a huge empty space all the way up to the boat deck. i sense within seconds of the fracture starting anyone down there would drown.. and in the dark too... Looking at the deck plans makes me think Alfred White was at the boat deck.. looking forward, having used that spiral staircase to get there... but to see third class he would have had to have gone aft first... maybe on E deck? its a long way aft to third class from the fourth funnel - then turned around and carried on up the spiral staircase?
Steven Christian
Member
The small ladder leading up to the vents or the funnel ladder? I don't see why he would climb up the funnel but...? I know the funnel climbing was in one of Pelligino's books but it that only source or are there others? Just curious. Thanks.
Incony
Member
Steven Christian, ive just been trying to investigate Alfred Whites memory of what he did, given that he was one of the only ones who was in the electrical generation part of the turbine room, to escape prior to the sinking.. his memory, not surprisingly is a little muddled... and as others have noted, the ships plans show a spiral staircase from E deck to the boat deck, ( its exit point shown in the photo of Olympic above ) Alfred says he climbed inside the funnel. that's what i was trying to understand... in effect i think his interpretation of "inside" was the spiral staircase.. he would have known it well already, since it was a direct access up and down to the parts he would be asked to go to.. sadly the chances of accessing the turbine room now, to see whats left are almost if not impossible and few views of the ship show how the electrical staff did their work. but if we are to believe what Alfred White did in the last moments... we have to see how it was possible to do what he said he did... when Alfred says he went up inside the Funnel, he doesnt mean above the boat deck.. he means from deck E to boat deck. From that exit door he could go forward to the short ladder, climb it.. and look from there forward... he doesnt have to climb any further, and its unlikely he had time to. Exactly how he reached a boat isnt my interest, its what happened during the last minutes in the electrical control room. it a bit like this 1. Alfred White is told he can leave... 2. at that point there is still steam, the main generators, at least two of them. are still running.. the emergency generators as far as we know, are not. 3. Alfred climbs the ladders, out of the generator room, maybe he goes aft to the emergency doors on E deck, ( the third class locked gates ) sees folks there, decides to turn around and go up the spiral staircase, climbs the short ladder , and looks forward, but as he is watching, the decks start to fracture... 4, in the generating room, steam fails, as the pipes in the engine room , are fractured and torn away..., 5. cables fracture, short circuits happen etc, and as the generators run down from loss of steam, the lights flicker and fail. , 6. water is pouring in now from severed pipes and hull fractures, both from below and above... i doubt very much if those still in the turbine room area, had any time to reset circuit breakers, or change a fuse, the world is collapsing around them... being torn apart above below and around them.. 7. Alfred somehow escapes, but those below are drowned as the ship breaks apart completely. My guess is that even if those in the turbine room were still alive, the structure was being wrecked, it was pitch black in there.. there was no escape..
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Steven Christian
Member
Thank you for the reply. Yes it is somewhat of a mystery from what you have written and interesting. I looked up Alfred White's bio. It says he transferred from the Oceanic less than 2 weeks before she sank. But it didn't say if he ever was on the Olympic. I just bring that up because I was curious if he had any experience on the Olympic class ships prior. For me it took longer on my ship to really know my way around. But maybe he was a smart guy and learned it fast. A minor point from my experience with generators and your point no. 4. The more I've looked into it from what witnesses have described I'm not sure there wasn't steam still going to the gens when the final trip happened. I think the final trip was the result of a massive short circuit. I need to go back and try and find what relay scheme they used for protection. I've seen generators that were still connected to the load when they lose their prime mover. The load acts like a dynamic break and they spin down faster. I know some witnesses described the lights going dim and then off for good. Anyway I hope you figure out how he got up there. Thanks.
Incony
Member
a dc generator driving into a short circuit becomes an arc welder - such an event one can suppose might happen if a cable breaks and makes contact with ground ( the hull or part of it ) if that's a transient thing the lights still in circuit would flicker, dim - even go out and come back on again... if the circuit they are on remains intact... i sense as the hull fractured, it could even be that the switch board was severely damaged causing the same effect... i.e the cables through and into the engine room being pulled out of the switch board in the turbine room. but as equally it could be debris falling on the generators themselves as they turned... we wont ever know..
Keith H
Member
It is interesting how Alfred White got up from the turbine room , he either used the spiral stair case from the engine room or up I assume ladders up the shaft from the turbine room to the funnel ,the way he could go from E deck is a bit puzzling , the only way up is a stair behind the turbine room casing , then through 2nd class dining room then up the aft stair case ( the one with the lift in the centre ) to the boat deck that way ,with all the water tight doors shut this would be his only route up .
I don't see any access to third class accommodation on his travels
The only thing I can think of are steps up from the aft well deck as they had three foot high gates at the top of them ?
The main generators were at the bottom of the ship under turbine room ,i imagine as the break up occurred these would be soon be flooded , they may have still ran under water till the steam failed being low voltage and water being a poor conductor ( a debatable point ) let alone what circuit protection they had in 1912 and would the emergency generator under the funnel be running also ,the flickering of lights might have been the emergency generator either cutting in or being manually brought on line , I think trying to re set the circuit breakers against a sort circuit would cause a high degree of arcing to the contacts .
The turbine room was separated from the engine room by a water tight bulkhead but how this stood up as the ship broke apart is a point for conjecture .
It does make you feel for the poor men down there when this occurred.
Steven Christian
Member
I read Incony's link to the Pelligrino article last night and it made it a little clearer. Yes trying to keep reclosing the breaker would cause arcing eventually causing it to fail. Some circuits like a pump would act like a dead short also for about a half second because of locked rotor current. I've spent the first half of my day today rebuilding a DC generator that is only 6v at 40 amps max. Even that little gen will throw a nice arc.
Rancor
Member
Agree with you here, this is one of the most fascinating parts of the event for me but most people seem to gloss over it with either "they all stayed to the end and died" or "they all made a run for it". As usual the truth is probably far more nuanced and somewhere between the two extremes noted above. I guess with not much in the way of witness testimony though it's going to be difficult to ascertain exactly what happened unless more evidence comes to light.
Would agree with your timeline with a couple of suggestions, it is in the testimony that the emergency generators were also running, which makes sense as they were normally run after nightfall as standard practice.
As I understand it Alfred White went up the ladder inside the 4th funnel. There was a platform at the top where he could have stood and seen the entire ship break in front of him. The funnel then fell over and he went with it into the water. You'd think it would be something too over the top for even an action movie but it has been confirmed by multiple witnessess!
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