How much of a difference would it have made?

[Yuriko Cheng]

If Captain Lord had assessed the risk of such an operation and decided that it wasn't worth it, then so be it. The problem is that he didn't do anything—didn't even wake up to confirm if the rockets his officers saw were distress rockets, didn't make even the feeblest attempt at contacting and/or rendering assistance to the Titanic. Indeed, it's not fair to criticise Captain Lord for what he could have done, should have done when all these are only hypothetical best-case scenarios created with the benefit of hindsight. Even if he had done exactly as was discussed, it still might not have made a bit of difference. But because of what he did not do, we will never know if even one more life could have been saved that night.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

As soon as the first lifeboats unloaded their human cargo onto the Californian they could have rowed back to pull some people from the water, no?

Actually...no.

Oh, they would have tried, but these aren't motor boats which can putter around and back to be quickly recovered, unloaded and deployed again. Rowing is also VERY slow going. And anybody who thinks that hauling even a single body...alive or dead...out of the water is easily and quickly done, has either never done it themselves or bothered to listen to anybody who has.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Rowing is also VERY slow going

You bet. Didn't someone post that with about 40 people on board, the fastest they could row those lifeboats was about 3 miles an hour or something?

As soon as the first lifeboats unloaded their human cargo onto the Californian they could have rowed back to pull some people from the water, no?

The Californian was between 11 and 14 miles from the sinking Titanic. Let us say, 12 miles for the sake of discussion. The first lifeboat lowered was Lifeboat #7 at 12:40am; there is some discepancy in the number of people on board, but 28 sounds about right without significant error either way. Even if they had started rowing for the distant light of the Californian as soon as #7 touched the water and kept up their speed (which they could not have done, of course), it would have taken them around 4 hours just to reach the other ship.

The Titanic sank at 2:20 am, 2 hours and 40 minutes after it collided with the iceberg and 1 hour and 40 minutes after the very first lifeboat reached the water.

 

[Yuriko Cheng]

Thank you, Michael and Arun, for correcting my misconceptions on the technicalities of rowing! I must admit that despite growing up on a maritime country I know very little about ships and the ocean itself...

 

[Michael H. Standart]

You bet. Didn't someone post that with about 40 people on board, the fastest they could row those lifeboats was about 3 miles an hour or something?

Something like that, and that's if you can even keep it up.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Thank you, Michael and Arun, for correcting my misconceptions on the technicalities of rowing! I must admit that despite growing up on a maritime country I know very little about ships and the ocean itself...

No problem. Nobody knows everything and we all live and learn. For instance, you can probably fly through Social Media in your sleep but I cannot even manage Facebook without my blood pressure splashing out of my ears!

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I must admit that despite growing up on a maritime country I know very little about ships and the ocean itself...

Your interests likely took you in a different direction.

BTW, I've been to your country twice. It's quite the hub of commerce and trade.

 

[Yuriko Cheng]

Your interests likely took you in a different direction.

BTW, I've been to your country twice. It's quite the hub of commerce and trade.

Yes, my countrymen tend to focus more on business and IT these days. Which makes me even more of an outlier, I suppose, since I have little aptitude or interest in the things my country are known for and chooses to develop.

For instance, you can probably fly through Social Media in your sleep but I cannot even manage Facebook without my blood pressure splashing out of my ears!

Are you sure about that, Arun? I am VERY behind the times and social media is the bane of my existence. If I were a first-class passenger on the Titanic, I'd be the kind of person who is still figuring out how to use a telephone while the Captain is already using them to send his orders all around the ship! XD

 

[marina_irc]

Yes, my countrymen tend to focus more on business and IT these days. Which makes me even more of an outlier, I suppose, since I have little aptitude or interest in the things my country are known for and chooses to develop.


Are you sure about that, Arun? I am VERY behind the times and social media is the bane of my existence. If I were a first-class passenger on the Titanic, I'd be the kind of person who is still figuring out how to use a telephone while the Captain is already using them to send his orders all around the ship! XD

For what it's worth, I'm also an "odd duck". My profession is still mostly male-dominated in this world, and I also stay away from social media ... I started using the internet in the 1990s as a child when my parents didn't understand what I was doing, and everyone was anonymous. I have no social media accounts except a private chat server to keep it touch with the friends I've made over the years. What would I do with a real social media account? I'd just lose my free time for baking!

 

[Mike Spooner]

The first distress rocket was sent up about at 12.50am. No ship is going to react on just one rocket. The time of second rocket is about 1.00am.
So IF for the Californian had set off after second rocket. First, captain Lord must gather his crew together which most are in bed, Second, the ship needs to build up steam her boilers. So the time they are ready to go is about 1.10-15am. That now leaves them about one hour and twenty minutes to get to Titanic. IF 14 miles away due to ice caution or pushing through ice be lucky to do 5 knots. Very doubtful if they get to Titanic before she sunk. So what is left,? Those lucky ones in lifeboats and freezing cold bodies in the water which only have about 10- 15 minutes to live.
Which now is pitch dark to find them. If you do find them how many crew members do you need to rescue over 1400? As for Lord Mersey in charge of the British inquiry couldn't see any problems at all, and when on to say. Had she do so she might have saved many, if not of the lives that were lost!
And Lord Mersey made dam sure that captain Lord was not allow to have his say in the matter of the most incredible fantasy rescue plan of the century!

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I am VERY behind the times and social media is the bane of my existence.

It's not going to go away, so you might do well to learn how to use it while walking away from it's more toxic elements. You're entirely welcome to drop in on my page and even friend it if you like. I use it to advocate for history and science. I try to keep it a friendly place.

What I don't do is shill for politicians, especially the ones you wouldn't want to trust with your daughters dignity, but that's another rant.

 

[JFC]

The fact that the California’s logbook sheets that night were destroyed and altered is damnable and says it all. C-Y-A big time! As Walter Lord wrote, “rockets are rockets!” I try to give Captain Lord some rope - but not much -for perhaps his not fully understanding wireless’ capabilities at this early stage of its use on ships. (Like seniors learning the internet today). He resorted to ordering what he knew as tried/true ship signaling instead.

 

[Mike Spooner]

The only person needs a rope, is Lord Mersey on his fantasy rescue plan.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

The Californian was on ‘stand by’ in the engine room, ready to move at an instant, despite being stopped. Those were Captain Lord’s orders for the night. The boilers were ready to supply steam to the triple expansion engine with adding additional coal to burn a few minutes later.

How long would it have taken the Californian to start moving towards the distant lights of the Titanic from that 'stand by' position and reach 11 to 12 knots, which I believe was the maximum speed that they could achieve? I assume that despite being on standby, Captain Lord had to issue orders appropriate for the situation of attempted rescue and the crew, both engine room and deck, had to respond accordingly.

I think myself I would rather turn the clock forward some 50 minutes from say that 1.05am starting point used by Michael, Tracey, and Eric

Okay. Assuming a distance of 12 miles between the Titanic and the Californian and an 'alterted time' of 12:15am for the latter (12:27am on the Titanic), when do you think the Californian could have arrived near the Titanic? I made that out at approximately 01:40am on the Titanic, by which time Lifeboats up to and including Lifeboat #15 would have been launched, with #13 and #15 having just reached the water and still almost alongside the ship. The crew would be loading Lifeboats #10 and #4 with the increasing port list and on the starboard side work on Collapsible C had probably started. In that sort of scenario, what do you think the Californian should/could have done Julian? IMO, for the Leyland liner to get alongside the sinking Titanic close enough for the crowd of people on deck to be able to 'jump across' would have been very difficult, not the least because of the port list and the now steadily dipping bow.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

The other issue I have with this "jumping across" business is that under equilibrium conditions, the boat deck of the Titanic was a lot higher than that of the Californian. But by the time the Californian (hypothetically) arrived near the Titanic, it would have been around 01:40am and the bigger ship would be about 5 degrees down at the head as well as listing to port. So, even if the Californian dared to place itself alongside the sinking Titanic maneuvering into an optimal position (relatively speaking) on the port side of the larger ship, it would have taken another 5 to 10 minutes, during which time the Titanic woul have been close to 6-degrees trim and with a greater port list.

Then, depending on where on the port side of the boat deck of the Titanic one was standing, they could be at a significantly higher level (sternward), more or less the same level (about amidships) or lower (towards the bow) than the boat deck of the Californian. Therefore, there would have been only a relatively small area of the boat deck of the Titanic somewhere amidships off which one could even consider jumping across as a practical possibility. Some might have gone to lower decks further aft, but this would have complicated an already difficult situation for the crew of the Californian even as the Titanic continued to sink further, more rapidly as the minutes passed. Also, crowd control on board the Titanic could easily have got out of hand with this new hope now apparently available.

Frankly, I don't think that scenario would have succeeded in saving more than perhaps 30 or 40 people, if that. Far more would have tried and either fallen between ships or got lost somewhere belowdecks till it was too late.