Identifying crew in photos

[Michael Hinz]

I think #40 looks like one of the unknown kitchen members in the photo I mentioned in post #105. Maybe this man could be John Ellis (28 years old)?

There are two other surviving kitchen members without known photographs: Reginald Hardwick (21 years old) and E.Joseph Colgan (33 years old). Hardwick seems to young. Colgan disappeared after the arrival in New York.

Hardwick could be the man sitting right on the deck. He seems to be the youngest crewman in this picture. He was a just a simple kitchen porter and the Titanic was his first ship. Why would he be photographed with such high-ranking crew members (Proctor, Bochatay, Walpole, Seward)? Maybe thats why he is sitting on the ground, to symbolize the hierachy...

Another candidate is Afred Windebank (38 years old). He joined the ship as a substitute for another cook who failed to sign on. Unfortunately I dont know when Windebank came on board or when the picture was taken. I think the group picture could have been taken on 8th or 9th of April...

 

[Gaston Sam]

Good work, Sam! I always enjoy your posts.

Thank you! I enjoy working with you two

 

[Gaston Sam]

I think #40 looks like one of the unknown kitchen members in the photo I mentioned in post #105. Maybe this man could be John Ellis (28 years old)?

That's one geat match! Their features and expression are identical, it's a shame there's no picture available for Ellis or Colgan. Anyway, I'd dismiss Windebank for this one, and I'd say that John Ellis is the likeliest candidate

 

[Gaston Sam]

Paul suggested #36 could be Frederick Doel.

I think it's quite possible.

 

[Michael Hinz]

Hey guys! I had a lot to do in the last few days but now I am back

To identify #13 I came across this unknown crewman. Does anybody know who that is? I thought about John Edward Hart but I am not sure...

 

[Paul Burrell]

I think #40 looks like one of the unknown kitchen members in the photo I mentioned in post #105. Maybe this man could be John Ellis (28 years old)?
View attachment 48857

There are two other surviving kitchen members without known photographs: Reginald Hardwick (21 years old) and E.Joseph Colgan (33 years old). Hardwick seems to young. Colgan disappeared after the arrival in New York.

View attachment 48858
Hardwick could be the man sitting right on the deck. He seems to be the youngest crewman in this picture. He was a just a simple kitchen porter and the Titanic was his first ship. Why would he be photographed with such high-ranking crew members (Proctor, Bochatay, Walpole, Seward)? Maybe thats why he is sitting on the ground, to symbolize the hierachy...

View attachment 48861


Another candidate is Afred Windebank (38 years old). He joined the ship as a substitute for another cook who failed to sign on. Unfortunately I dont know when Windebank came on board or when the picture was taken. I think the group picture could have been taken on 8th or 9th of April...

I think Ellis is a very good shout for #40, Michael. #40 had me stumped but seems you have solved it.

The kitchen staff photo might include kitchen porters. It could be Hardwick. At least we know the scullions are not in the photo as we would be able to identify the usual suspects immediately. It would make sense that Windebank is not in the photo as he was a substitute.

I wonder if there were other department photos taken that are not available. The bakers department would be good to see, not least to get a look at Bentley Neal.

 

[Paul Burrell]

My thoughts so far (I'll omit needless photographs):
1- Walter Fredericks is a good guess, I remember too someone else mentioned that.
2- He clearly is an AB, as he's wearing the White Star Line jersey, but I'm not sure who he is yet.
3-He seems to be another deck crew man too. I don't know yet who he might be, but I don't think he is Perkis.
4-
5- Henry Noss
6- Eustace Snow

7- Judging by his noticeable air of authority and general features, I'd confidently say he is Frederick Barrett
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8- This one is a bit confusing. I first thought he was Albert Hunt (23), but #21 has almost the same chance. What would make me belive it could be #8 is the skinnier build. Still it is not 100% sure.
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9- He certainly looks like Edward Self. I had some doubts at first as #9 looks a little bit older than what Self was by then (24).
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10- Reginald Lee

11- Samuel Collins
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12-

13- Not very sure about this one. He has a good resemblance to Alfred White (32), but still it's not convincing enough. I don't really think he is John Pearce though.
View attachment 48850
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14-

15- No available photo for him. Could he be James Avery (20)?
View attachment 48856

16- Another one with no photo, or is there any? The only photographs for Charles Judd (31) show him at an older age, but there seems to be some matches in general, enough perhaps to point him out.
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17-
18- Edward Perry
19-

20- Paul's suggestion for Walter Hurst (23) is pretty good actually. My initial thought was on Walter Binstead (20), but I think Hurst definitely fits the bill.
View attachment 48855
View attachment 48846

21- Albert Hunt is a good candidate, specially when considering he's standing next to his brother-in-law.
View attachment 48847

22- Albert Hebb (22)
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23- George Taylor
24- Not sure yet, though I think he's not a steward.
25- William White

26- George Cavell: at first sight he may not look like any familiar stoker, but you can definitely tell he's very young, and short (he's standing one step above Robert Couper who is 5' 2½", but was him on the same level he would probably be at least half an inch shorter than Couper). A closer look at Cavell (5' 1" and 22 years old) should clear doubts.
View attachment 48843

27- Probably Henry Sparkman (no photo available but 5' 1" and 36 years old).

28- I suggested before he could be Franz Kasper.

29- Frederick Sheath
View attachment 48853

30- Frank Port
31-
32- Albert Fryer
33- George Godley
34- Robert Couper
35- I first thought he could be Edward Self, but discarded that. Let's see what can we elucidate.
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36-
37- Still under discussion
38- James Hyland
39- Joseph Wheat
40-

Hi Sam



#3. Good spot re his AB jersey.



Yes, #7 does look like Fred Barrett. It’s fascinating how authority repeatedly comes across in photos - there are similar examples in other photos containing Hardy, Wheat, Bailey, Haines.



Seeing Hunt compared to #8 convinces me that #21 is indeed Hunt. The shape of the eyebrows and pointed end of his nose of #21 in particular.



Based on your post, I now have some doubt about my own decision to state that #9 is Albert Self. #34 looks very much like Self too. The nose is exactly the same shape. A real puzzle, this one.



#15. Hmm, I would say that he looks much older than man in his 20s but have no better suggestion to offer.



#26. Agree, it’s George Cavell.



#27 could well be Henry Sparkman.



#29. I have not seen this photo of Frederick Sheath before. All this time I thought it was Percy Ball - I thought the mouth was a giveaway - so this goes to show how beneficial our collaboration is on this.

 

[Michael Hinz]

I think Ellis is a very good shout for #40, Michael. #40 had me stumped but seems you have solved it.

The kitchen staff photo might include kitchen porters. It could be Hardwick. At least we know the scullions are not in the photo as we would be able to identify the usual suspects immediately. It would make sense that Windebank is not in the photo as he was a substitute.

I wonder if there were other department photos taken that are not available. The bakers department would be good to see, not least to get a look at Bentley Neal.

Actually, I cant decide between Ellis and Windebank. When I look at the later photo of Alfred Windebank, I see many similarities (nose, mouth, chin), but I think Windebank did not come on board until April 10th, which would have been too late to get on the group picture. Also the cook on the picture looks younger than 38 years, so it could be Ellis.

I see that I made a mistake with Colgan. He disappeared after his return to England. It ist possible that he appears on one of our pictures here...

 

[Michael Hinz]

These are our results so far:

1 – Walter Fredericks
2 – Unknown AB?
3 – Unknown AB?
4 –
5 – Henry Noss
6 – Eustace Snow
7 – Frederick Barrett
8 –
9 – Albert Self
10 – Reginald Lee
11 – Samuel Collins
12 –
13 –
14 -
15 – Maybe James Avery?
16 – Probably Charles Judd?
17 – Andrew Simmons or Thomas Knowles?
18 – Edgar Lionel Perry
19 –
20 – Walter Hurst
21 – Albert Hunt
22 – Albert Hebb
23 – George Taylor
24 – Maybe Patrick Dillon?

25 – William White
26 – George Cavell
27 – Henry Sparkman
28 – Franz Kaspar?
29 – Frederick Sheath
30 – Frank Port
31 – Probably John Pearce?

32 – Albert Fryer
33 – George Godley
34 – Robert Couper
35 –
36 –
37 – Wilfred Foley
38 – Leo Hyland
39 – Joseph Wheat
40 – John Ellis or Alfred Windebank

 

[Michael Hinz]

And of course Frederick Doel for #36.

 

[Gaston Sam]

To identify #13 I came across this unknown crewman. Does anybody know who that is? I thought about John Edward Hart but I am not sure...

I'm not sure if Hart is in the stairs photo, but I think he is a great match for that steward on those two photos. That's a very good observation

 

[Gaston Sam]

I think Ellis is a very good shout for #40, Michael

I think Ellis is the best bet too. Not only he looks younger than Windebank, what #40's mouth grimace is identical to the one of the fellow Michael suggested could be Ellis.

 

[Gaston Sam]

Seeing Hunt compared to #8 convinces me that #21 is indeed Hunt. The shape of the eyebrows and pointed end of his nose of #21 in particular.

#15. Hmm, I would say that he looks much older than man in his 20s but have no better suggestion to offer.

I agree I had my doubts with #15's age. Then we could leave #21 for Albert Hunt, and maybe #8 could be trimmer James Avery, as he looks like he was 20.

 

[Gaston Sam]

So now, proceeding with the two ABs:
#3 features are clearer than the other, still I was debating between Thomas Jones and Walter Brice.

In favour of Jones, they are both wearing the same clothes (a plain dark guernsey and an overcoat). The other version of the stair photograph even shows #3 with an expression that quite resembles that of Jones. The only doubt would is on #3's moustache style, which seems to be different. That difference is not noticeable on the other stair photo though(!).

Walter Brice features are a good match too, and he also wears the same moustache style of #3 (thanks to Ioannis Georgiou for Brice's photo).

So what else? I think #3's cheekbones match better to Jones' ones. Then, let's examine their height. Jones was 5' 1" and Brice 5' 6". If #3 is Jones then AB #2's height would be near 5'6" and Walter Fredericks (5'8½") would have to be one step higher (and he seems to be indeed).

If #3 is Brice, then AB #2 would necessarily have to be one step higher (and stand about 5'8") or he would be taller than any AB actually was. On the same level with Fredericks, AB #2 would be 5'6", but one step down (which would mean #1, #2 and #3 are on three different steps) and #2 would be about 5'10" (being Joseph Bailey the only one that tall).

Then we better take a look at #2. He's got a particular countenance but doesn't really look like any familiar AB. After some examination the only one I would suggest is William Weller (aged 30, 5' 6¼"). And still it isn't very convincing.

The othe possibility is that #2 was an AB with no photo. AB John Anderson (aged 40) was 5' 7" and had a moustache as #2 seems to have. Storekeeper John Foley was 5' 6". And stop counting.

 

[Gaston Sam]

Concerning #13, in another photo of the Seamen's Church Institute, one man I believe is John Pearce is wearing the same clothes as crewman #13. So there's a good chance he is fireman Pearce indeed.

#14 may be Cecil Fitzpatrick