Is there a new Cameron expedition planned for 2005

I'd like to see that too
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Also maybe some exploring of the Officers Quarters too
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I don't think anyone explored the cabins of Titanic's officers before. So there's a new place to explore this time
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Another I've like to see would be for once, once go under the D deck framework of the grand staircase and see what's hidden there. Also on E deck the levators are dsaid to be resting, though in bad shape are crashing to the bottom, given the shape of the grillwork.
 
i don't think so. whens should he get time? he's working on the new dvd.

some people say that we shouldn't explore the wreck because it "hurts" titanic, but i personally think that it is better to get as many pictures and videos (and maybe things brought up from the wreck) which will short titanic's life than let her lie down there for 200 years in peace till there's nothing left.
 
>>i don't think so. whens should he get time? he's working on the new dvd.<<

I don't think so....what? Jim Cameron is in fact taking an expedition out there this summer. (Or am I misunderstanding what you're responding to?)

>>some people say that we shouldn't explore the wreck because it "hurts" titanic,<<

Well, that's the gist of the assertion and it may not be without some foundation. Whenever one is poking around an old shipwreck, it's impossible not to have *some* impact on the site however minor. All else aside, accidents do happen and that much is the base of my own concerns. I have no reason to believe that expeditions to the wreck are hastening it's decay. Nature is doing a good job at that and doesn't need our help. What I'm concerned about is that one day, a submersible is going to brush something which looks deceptively stable and bring it down on top of their heads.
 
Michael, i only thought it was rumours (the expedition). I'm glad he's actually going. I didn't think he'd get time because of the new DVD.

Yeah, a submarine may hit something down there but that's a risk you have to take. Do we want new information, pictures and videos or do we want to leave the ship alone. About the decaying of the wreck, i have to agree. it's going so fast and there's no way to stop it. a few submarines won't make a big difference
 
Mostly now the best thing to do is to hover over the decks. The superstructure, I feel, is beginning to now become a hazard to subs, so IMO land elsewhere or hover above the deck. It's safer for the crew inside, and also if the decks are that thin, one slight bump will cause a disaster. I also agree get as much material on photographs or video to show to the public before it's too late.
 
>>I didn't think he'd get time because of the new DVD.<<

My understanding of Jim Cameron's character is limited only to what I've seen presented here by people who have dealt with the man. However, based on what I've seen, he impresses me as the sort of person who will find a way to make the time if it's important to him, and the Titanic is. This is good news for the Titanic community as a whole as he's very good about sharing the information he uncovers for all to see.

>>The superstructure, I feel, is beginning to now become a hazard to subs,<<

I wouldn't disagree with that. Even ballested to near nuetral boyancy, a mini-sub is taking a gamble any time it touches down on the superstructure of the ship. If it isn't on the list of things verbotan it probably should be.
 
With the deterioration of the Titanic wreck, the upcoming Cameron dive expedition may be one of the last chances to record certain details. Some or all of these may have been recorded by WHOI but I despair of ever having any kind of access to their images. At least what Cameron records, he shows. With that in mind I would like to propose a few targets where a close up look would settle some controversies. The good thing about most of these targets is that they are exterior and would not require tricky moves into the interior of the ship. Here are my nominations:

1. I would like for one of the ROV's to try to
remove the cover over what lies behind the
circular "mystery object" on the forward
starboard B deck promenade. Yes, this is
disturbing the wreck but in a short time the
whole wreck may collapse in on itself.
If this couldn't be done, I would like a
close up look at the top of the railing of the
forward bulkhead there to see if there are
seams on either side of the object which
could suggest a removeable panel.

2. There is a minor controversy regarding whether
there was any kind of flush mounted skylight
over the squash court. The controversy is
whether there were any flush mounted skylights
near the aft bulkhead of the forward well
deck. This would be found just aft of the
crane jibs and just forward of the aft
bulkhead of the forward well deck on the
longitudinal midline.

3. I have seen some images of the inboard side
of the water tank starboard and aft of the
first funnel opening. For clarity I would
like to see an up close examination of the
tank to document all pipe connections.

4. There is a rectangular feature over the W.C.
just forward of the forward expansion joint
on the port side of the officer's quarters
roof. Is it a flush mounted skylight or
something else?

I don't know if anybody who frequents this board has any connection to this expedition but if there is any way some or all of these areas could get a close up look it would really clear up some mysteries.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
Bob,

The ROVs that Cameron uses have no arms, no ability to interact with the wreck. They carry a camera and lights and are designed only to record. The Mirs carry manipulator arms, but will be restricted from interacting with the wreck in the manner that you suggest. Because of the new protection treaty, NOAA is enforcing a strict no-touch policy for everyone other than the salvor-in-possession, RMST. Where the actual wreck is concerned, even RMST must observe more exacting restrictions. In order to do as you suggest regarding the "mystery box," an argument must be made about the historical necessity of determining its function, and that argument will have to gain approval from NOAA and RMST, at the very minimum. Cameron does not have the resources to pursue this process for his next expedition.

The area of the well deck that you described was well covered by NOAA in 2004. No skylight is visible in that area, but there is also an accumulation of sediment and debris between the cranes and the B-deck bulwark that make it impossible to say for certain whether or not a flush-mounted skylight might be found there. Again, Cameron's ROVs would be unable to clear the sediment build-up to reveal the actual deck underneath, and the area is too hazardous for Mirs to approach closely.

The water tank that you mentioned was imaged extensively in 2004. All piping, valves and connections are visible and well lit. Again, when the NOAA images are released to the public, you will want to look for these images.

There is no rectangular feature over the W.C. where you have indicated in the collection of images on your website. The 2004 images look closely at this area and whatever showed in the earlier ANGUS imagery is either long gone or was a misleading clue. Without having the image to show you, you'll just have to take my word for it for now. I am confident that the NOAA images, when released, will bear me out.

Cameron has specific goals in mind for his next expedition, most focusing on the interior. In order to gain permission for his interior exploration, he must satisfy NOAA that he will not damage the wreck or otherwise treat it with disrespect. Of course, a lot of eyes will be following his ROVs, looking for detail that might chance to pass by the cameras' lenses. Some mysteries, however, will remain mysteries because they lie just outside the camera's range or underneath a layer of silt.

So, if you're primarily concerned with exterior details, I recommend that you study the NOAA image archive (I counted over 6200 images and 87 video clips during my analysis effort) when it is released for public access. Cameron's focus is on the interior, but there are plans to include some exterior locations, such as the well deck (and don't expect much emphasis to be given to the foredeck and stem...those have been well covered in the past).

Parks
 
Parks:

One aspect that mystifies me is why Cameron is concentrating on the interior again. We have a lot of images of Titanic/Olympic interiors. If you can't recover anything or tough anything, what's to be gained?
When will the NOAA image archive be available and do you know what kind of access there will be? Specifically, will there be any kind of an online catalog to browse images before ordering?
If one has to travel to Washington to access the archive or deal with curators by snail mail then
it would be just about useless.
Also, you referred to something appearing on
"your website" meaning mine. Are you talking about TRMA?
If so, I have had no association with them for over a year.
 
Hello Parks,

Will Cameron be focusing on the bow? If so, I'm interested in any physical evidence of Bostwick Gates or other passenger segregation barriers.

The NARA deck plans show only two Bostwick gates and one of them is in the bow.

Best wishes,

Cathy
 
>>One aspect that mystifies me is why Cameron is concentrating on the interior again. We have a lot of images of Titanic/Olympic interiors.<<

This may not be as strange as you think. While Olympic's interiors are well photographed and documented, the same can't be said of Titanic. She just didn't live long enough, and that's why most photos passed off as Titanic are really those of her older sister. As I recall, the last expedition found a few surprises. Differences in the interiors and even some of the equipment...such as the Marconi apperatus...that had been lost to history. If more exist, it would sure be nice to find them befor the decay of the vessel makes interior exploration impossible.
 
Bob,

Regarding your first question, I'm going to defer to Cameron himself. He can explain his motives and goals better than I. According to the Discovery Channel schedule, look for the telecast on 24 July.

I do not know when the NOAA archive will be available or in what form. The issue here is that the 2004 expedition was co-funded by both the US Government (which means that the images will ultimately belong to the US taxpayers) and private interests (who can claim limited proprietary rights). According to the normally-accepted procedure for the release of imagery, the private concerns (NG, IFE, URI) can retain proprietary rights over imagery captured during the expedition they sponsor for a period of 2 years, which gives the private scientists time to analyse results and publish their findings. After that time, the US taxpayers get their money's worth. However, Titanic is an unusual case because of the public interest in the wreck. Therefore, negotiations are underway to reduce the proprietary time limit to something less than 2 years for this particular expedition. Hopefully, the imagery will be released to the public this year. If not, then it won't be until late next year.

What kind of access will there be? It depends on how much of NOAA's budget can be spent on the cataloguing and maintenance of their archive. Government agencies historically run on a bare-bones budget, and the budget is firmed up at the end of each fiscal year. We'll just have to see around October what NOAA gets for next year. Again, negotiations are ongoing...it could be that a private concern could help NOAA with their library. That might greatly affect how the imagery could accessed. You might, however, be required to travel to a repository to view the archive...an inconvenience that is not uncommon in the field of serious historical research. Or, it could be made available online for a fee to help support the maintenance of the archive. At this point, it's not determined.

When I mentioned "your" website, I was referring to your page in which you have stored your personal collection of images, not the TRMA website. In other words, the same page that you directed us to from this forum. I did not know that you are no longer associated with TRMA, so I'll take that and won't make the mistake in the future in assuming that you are.

Cathy,

I'm certain that any such gates will be of great interest to Cameron and his team, but there are of course no guarantees. Only after Cameron reaches his primary targets will he be able to search for others, and the dive schedule is very restrictive. Even for the primary targets there is little room for alternates, should the primaries prove difficult to access. But, you never know...

Parks
 
Best of luck man.
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On the 2004 archives on the wreck. I hope it's an online archive to looks through, just as NASA has with their image archives on their site. It'd be alot easier than driving many miles to see the stuff. I vote online access to the material.
 
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