Kotheimer: is the story true?

[Steven Christian]

I looked a little further into this story. There's really not much out there on this. At least on the interwebs. But you bring up some good points and there could (probably) be more to the reason. He could have participated with the other priests providing services but I'm not sure he would have have known of their booking on Titanic. But maybe he did. Since he asked WSL I'm guessing the logistics of performing a private mass were not a problem for him. But at least this story seems to be rooted in fact. There's so many stories out there of great uncle Bob missed the sailing on Titanic which are just family legends pasted down which aren't the case. Cheers.

P.S...This brings up a question if anyone knows. Did WSL publish their passenger lists before sailing? I know the newspapers would report that so and so celebrity would be sailing on XZY. Or did they not because of constant revisions like people canceling or changing ships. Just curious.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Since he asked WSL I'm guessing the logistics of performing a private mass were not a problem for him.

I think that sounds very likely. Rev Kotheimer probably had everything organized for his Private Mass had permission been granted.

Can the explanation to WSL's refusal to grant permission be something simple and straightforward? Could they have been mindful of the fact that given the immigration trend at the time to North America, people from all religious following would be using the liners to cross the Atlantic? So, WSL could have made it an unofficial policy that other than the designated Sunday prayers, no religious group or person would be given any special dispensation to conduct religious sessions on board. They might have thought that if they allowed one person or group, others might ask the similar permission etc.

I thought on those lines because I read that Rev Ernest Carter had to get the Purser's permission to conduct the hymn singing session on that Sunday evening.

 

[Bart]

I 'm sure that there is more in this story, he must have had some kind of link with Titanic, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned it. And people who escaped a traumatazing experience tend to explain why they weren't there at the moment.

Does anybody know how religious services were organized on an ocean liner those days? Could simple passengers say : hey, i'm a Roman Catholic priest, come to Mass at 6 am in 3rd class, about 8 am in the 2nd class lounge and then at 10 30 am in 1st class lounge? Don't know, help us out on this topic.

I don't think they published the passenger lists, the lists you find nowadays are merely the results of people who have dedicated time their time in making those lists known to the public. I've checked the Holland-America line lists and only found the passengers sailing from NY to Rotterdam, not vice versa. So, thanks for those people for their research, I wouldn't know where to start those things.

 

[Bart]

I think that sounds very likely. Rev Kotheimer probably had everything organized for his Private Mass had permission been granted.

Can the explanation to WSL's refusal to grant permission be something simple and straightforward? Could they have been mindful of the fact that given the immigration trend at the time to North America, people from all religious following would be using the liners to cross the Atlantic? So, WSL could have made it an unofficial policy that other than the designated Sunday prayers, no religious group or person would be given any special dispensation to conduct religious sessions on board. They might have thought that if they allowed one person or group, others might ask the similar permission etc.

I thought on those lines because I read that Rev Ernest Carter had to get the Purser's permission to conduct the hymn singing session on that Sunday evening.

I don't think companies nor society were that open on religious freedom as we are nowadays. The captain is God's representative on a ship. I don't know if that was maintained as a rule while traveling on an ocean liner

 

[Steve Dunham]

Thanks for all the replies. My understanding is that Anglican priests sometimes have to find employment, whereas Catholic priests are normally part of a diocese or a religious order and get assignments (I'm Catholic, and I know a few priests, and I did volunteer work with an Anglican priest who was indeed looking for a parish). If Father Kotheimer was sent to Europe to study, I expect that there would have been an assignment waiting for him when he returned to the USA. Also, my understanding is that Catholic priests are supposed to say Mass every day, whether in private or with others present. I think that both stories relate to this. Maybe Father Kotheimer's cabin would not have been suitable, and maybe he was refused the use of public spaces until after the ship had left Queenstown, a restriction that maybe Father Byles was willing to accept and Father Kotheimer was not. (This restriction is mentioned in the National Catholic Register article about Father Byles.) But this is just speculation on my part. I also suspect that Father Kotheimer's story may have gotten distorted in retellings and that it was colored by a desire to show that the priest's strict adherence to a church rule saved his life (which might be true).