If there are any human remains in the wreck where do you think they are

[Eric Paddon]

Sounds like what happened is that the person thought Ballard was speaking from personal knowledge when all he was doing speculating. Ballard has never been part of any expedition that has explored the interior of the wreck beyond a tiny penetration of the Grand Staircase shaft.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I apologize if culling these quotes is violating any copyright.<<

In this context, it looks like Fair Use applies since you only quoted a small section. I don't suppose the whole of the transcript is available on-line? It would be helpful to have everything to check out.

 

[Dan Cherry]

Thanks, Michael - I am with the understanding that quoting under 30 words, along with full credit to where the small quotation is derived from, is all right. I don't like to touch copyrighted material with a ten foot pole as it is, and did not wish to cause any undue headaches. As far as the transcript from that program being available online, I cannot find it. CNN's archives go back only to 2000, and the program in question aired Christmas Eve 1997 and re-aired on January 10, 1998. If someone wanted to get one, I'd imagine they would have to contact the company itself and purchase one.

Basically, in my view, the person on the other board apparently thought they heard something, and several months later went further to say it was indeed what was said.
For example, I've heard many times at my office a question become hard 'fact' by the time it reaches the other end of the building. "Do you know if such and such is going to happen" to "I hear such and such may happen" to "Such and such is going to happen."

....and just because two people heard something doesn't make it so...

Dan

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>....and just because two people heard something doesn't make it so... <<

Quite right, it doesn't. Lot's of rumours get started innocently enough, but take on a life of their own with each telling that follows. What was supposedly said seldom has any resemblance to what was actually said. Too bad the transcripts of the interview aren't on line. I prefer to use verbatim quote strieght from the source in discussions like this to avoid misunderstandings.

 

[Michael Cundiff]

Hello:

IMHO...just as we will never *truly* know the *actual* extent of damage which was inflicted upon TITANIC by the iceberg...I am of the beleif that we will (our lifetime) never realize the extent of human remains inside TITANIC's bowels.

I feel that NAUTILE'S attempt at deploying her R.O.V. ROBIN inside the bunker hatch ('96), which in fact was negated by primarily mud and collapsed bearing supports (beams, vertical lateral integretiy) is sufficient enough evidence to support MHO.

CARSON CITY is alive and well...having survived the WATERFALL INCIDENT (Inferno)

Michael A. Cundiff
Carson City, NV USA

 

[Michael Cundiff]

BTW, the scatterfield is very abundant with human remains. I really do not understand the point of measure...whether it be by way of a pair of leather shoes *marking* the very spot a human being perished (actually it was probably about 400' if not by means of a piano or boiler ;-(

Sadly, yes they are human remains. So if it's a bone or a shoe explain to me please what difference does it make? A terrible tragedy played out there above and below that lat. and long.

Michael A. Cundiff
USA

 

[Christina DeMohrenschildt]

I recall hearing Robert Ballard speak on CNN on Christmas Eve 1997. I've never seen a transcript, but I'm fairly certain he didn't talk of having seen human remains.

Eric Payne, whose name turns up in one of the latter - day books on Titanic, has stated that no human remains could lie inside the wreckage. Does anyone know if he posts here? If not,does anyone have transcripts of his lectures?

 

[Eric Paddon]

Mr. Payne is dead. And given how he and I had as much regard for each other as the President would for Michael Moore, I'll leave it to others to say more about him.

 

[Christina DeMohrenschildt]

Since my last post I discovered the following link that tells us that Eric Payne was born with a terrible deformity. He had no neck. His head touched his shoulders.

http://www.marriagefairness.org/gay_marriage_stories/story.php?id=5

It's very poignant that someone who suffered so much in life would contribute to people's education about a tragic event.

Maybe William Seright, the friend and fellow researcher mentioned in the above story, knows what became of Mr. Payne's research.

The social ostracism Mr. Payne evidently faced all his life gave him lots of time to dig. He never entered a hospital in his life until he was 40 in 1999 even though he lived with that deformity all those years. Maybe he put his nose to the grindstone in years of research.

Where are the others who can say more about him?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Where are the others who can say more about him?<<

They're probably everywhere, but since his personal life is irrelevant to this discussion, it would be wise to avoid going into it. The issue is whether or not there are human remains inside the Titanic, so let's stay focused on that and avoid opening old wounds please.

Of course, his research is fair game.

 

[Christina DeMohrenschildt]

>>The Eric Payne I had the misfortune of being acquainted with in Titanic discussion was a devious and dishonest person who believed in using character assassination and deliberate falsehoods in order to spread his agenda, especially with regard to the salvage issue. In my case he was responsible for impugning my integrity by sending phony e-mails with my name on them to people and then claiming I was harassing people I didn't agree with on salvage to unsubscribe from mailing lists.<<

That's a very serious charge. It sounds like the road to identity theft. How do you know Eric Payne was the guilty party? Did this happen after 1999, when Mr. Payne's health declined suddenly? He spent the last four years of his life in doctors' offices and hospitals. The source on that is:

http://www.marraigefairness.org/gay_marriage_stories/story.php?id=5

Mr. Standart is right when he discourages us from dwelling on Mr. Payne's personal life.

This web page does place him, however, in a lot of doctors' offices and hospitals starting in 1999. That is relevant to whatever he said on the Internet during that time. It's not exactly a secret. Doctors' offices aren't homes. Mr. Payne would have required an excellent laptop and cheap ISP to set up and operate phony e-mail accounts.

>>That was the Eric Payne I saw, and it is the one thing people like me will never forget or forgive him for, even in death.<<

If we can forgive the Titanic officers for their human error that resulted in a peacetime death
toll rivalled only by 9/11, then we can forgive Eric Payne.

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

The fact is that some huge flame wars erupted, and Eric Payne was a part of them. And it brought the Titanic Mail list to it's knees, and the owner killed the list in disgust. This must have been - 1997 or so? The two still existing mail lists grew out of the ruins - and, I think, so did ET and the existing newsgroup.

Eric did have a web-site at one point. I am not aware that he ever had anything published beyond that, though I could be wrong on that.

 

[Christina DeMohrenschildt]

>>Some huge flame wars erupted, and Eric Payne was a part of them.<<

Well then, only Eric Paddon seems to be placing Mr. Payne on the road to identity theft. It's
a serious charge. I hereby bequeath Mr. Payne's misdeeds to Judgment Day. That's
enough.

Though he never authored a book and his web site is gone, maybe the name Eric Payne
has turned up or will turn up in a Titanic book. Now that's positive.

 

[Eric Paddon]

There is a reason why the private message I sent you was sent "Private message" and I am sorry to see that you chose to violate that confidence by reprinting the contents in a public forum.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>There is a reason why the private message I sent you was sent "Private message" and I am sorry to see that you chose to violate that confidence by reprinting the contents in a public forum.
<<

I was wondering where that came from as it wasn't posted here in this forum. Christina, please be very careful about publishing private conversations, at least don't do so without the consent of those who were a party to that conversation who otherwise might not want some of their views out there in public.

As you can see, the matter of Eric Payne is a touchy issue to those who knew him.