Gordon Mooneyhan
Member
I think I would find Bruce Ismay and stick with him, and join him and Mr. Carter in Collapsible C.
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Discover new research on all aspects of the sinking, interesting Titanic facts, and learn more about the Titanic's passengers and crew.
If you were there during the sinking...
- Thread starter Cam Houseman
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Arun Vajpey
Member
I am in a similar situation with a couple of differences. My travels across the Atlantic to America were about once a year (less frequent after retirement in 2019) and always for holiday purposes or spending time with relatives. I usually travel Premium Economy and on board the Titanic, I would have been travelling Second Class.
Modesty apart, I'll say that I have a very large built-in instinct for danger & self-preservation as well as instinctively being able to find the correct escape route. Both are likely results of a troubled childhood, but we won't go into that. I have asked the same question to myself again and again, both if I was alone and if I was with my wife. As Second Class passengers we would have been at the stern and asleep, but I know that both would have realized something had happened instinctively. I believe that irrespective of what the crew told me, I would have realized that the ship was sinking and prepared to get to a lifeboat. For reasons that I cannot explain, I always find myself/us being saved on Lifeboat #9.
The one thing that I have not factored-in is whether my/our ethnic group could have made a difference in accessing space(s) on board Lifeboats in 1912. On balance, I like to think probably not in Second Class and not on "Murdoch's" starboard side.
Charles C. Deroko
Member
There are times when “survival of the fittest” is pushed aside by the deliberate choice to let others survive at the expense of one’s own life. Such self-sacrificing behavior is the stuff of legend; Birkenhead Drill or Wallace Hartley and his ensemble. When fire consumed the packet Poland in 1840 and some began taking to the boats, a French passenger spoke up and said, ‘Let us take care of the women and children first.’” That might be the first utterance of the term that became an unwritten law. Other examples, like the sinking of Collins Line's Arctic, showed otherwise. Being a retired professional seaman, I suppose my duty would be to help the crew, but I wouldn't like it.
Arun Vajpey
Member
Quite. And the best example during the Titanic for such quiet courage, verified by the "beneficiaries", would be IMO the father and son pair of Percival and Richard White. Those gentlemen had befriended fellow First Class passengers and mother and daughter pair of Elizabeth and Mary Lines during the voyage; they almost certainly were also dinner table companions.
After the accident, at some stage the Whites became aware of the danger. The knocked on the door of and alerted the Lines women, helped them with their lifejackets and escorted them to the boat deck and into Lifeboat #9. That done, the men made no attempt to follow their friends into the lifeboat, even though there was still room in that starboard side "Murdoch's lifeboat" where they would have been allowed. They stepped back on to the deck and were later seen helping others to get into lifeboats. Both men died in the sinking.
I highly recommend the independently published book about the Whites called Tales Of A Titanic Family by William Russo. It gives a good insight to those men and the the odd feeling that they were somehow ahead of their times in their thinking.
Charles C. Deroko
Member
Thank you
Thames LWT
Member
Save Loraine Allison!
Her asinine mother reminds me of that woman that Brian Clark met in Stairwell A of WTC2 whose panic technically got most of his group killed by telling them to go up.
Her asinine mother reminds me of that woman that Brian Clark met in Stairwell A of WTC2 whose panic technically got most of his group killed by telling them to go up.
Kathy S
Member
Thanks so much for posting that, Arun. I see on Amazon that Michael Poirer, too, gave it a good review and that it's only $7.39. I had vowed to not order any more books until I get caught up, but I couldn't resist ordering this one. It sounds fascinating.
Steven Christian
Member
LOL...That vow and one other I quit making to making to myself because I no know I can never keep them. At my age now I've come to the conclusion that the best way to deal with temptation is just give in to it and move on. I had knocked down my stack of books but it's been growing again. Anyway enjoy your new book.
Steven Christian
Member
Yes. There's been recent examples of the crews failing miserably IMO. The Costa Concordia and one who' name I forget in the eastern Med recently. Both captains abandoned their ships and passengers and hauled ass in a boat. They both said they were going for help...
Charles C. Deroko
Member
The cook goes down with the ship.
A well thought out reply Arun, well done. Do know what you mean about having a higher instinct or awareness of multi-factored possibilities. Logic and pre planning also prevail in that though, hence with any air travel you will find me booking early and always selecting the escape hatch row (get the benefit of more leg room too). In three huge write-off car accidents I literally stepped out of the crushed vehicle and walked away, having the ability to not panic myself would probably be due to a few factors that others may find similar.
Am a good musician, playing by ear. Surfing and extreme sports background (bungy jumping etc), farming/country lad, ambidextrous. Nickname at high school was McGyver. Also a director/actor (a skill that would have assisted you Arun way back then).
So - Titanic. If I was "time traveled" into situation, or purchased a ticket and traveling I would hope to say would both end in same result of survival, I would be utilising every recording method was able to "modern" or the status quo ante.
In saying all the above, this image (already on the site) is out of my 1975 Readers Digest. Have always thought that "John B Thayer" had some balls".
Even though my great grandfather was the deputy mayor of Edinburgh back then, you wouldn't find me traveling or socialising with "the toff's", most PROBABLY find me in the second class cabin right beside Arun. My grandparents (the deputy mayors daughter), were both anti-royalists, Grandad a union leader and Gran, yep... a suffragette. If traveled in period I would have already made acquintences with you Arun, they then would have pulled us onto the Carpathia together from some sort of floating contraption, noting, I would have been off the ship pronto.
Sinking Stern swivels 180 degrees????
First time have noticed this in the (oh crap) 40 years have owned this book.
Decided to drop a virtual protractor on John B Thayer's sinking diagrams, recorded as drawn by him from an overturned lifeboat.
Using original larger resolution file, started with his 1:40am diagram, note this is when John recorded Titanic splitting in between funnels 2 & 3.
His estimate split angle (take into consideration his current situation) was between 30 and 35 degrees.
John records that between 1:40 and 1:50 the bow half sinks causing the stern half reach approx 65 degrees.
I looked at first thinking "huh, John took some artistic license there and drew it as if on the other side", as no way on an overturned lifeboat would he be able to row around the massive hulk in 600 seconds odd
Zooming in on text, have recorded what John noted "STERN SECTION: PIVOTS AMIDSHIPS AND SWINGS OVER SPOT WHERE FORWARD SECTION SANK - 2:00AM
Has anyone else seen anything else regarding John B Thayer's claim? Was anything said during the court cases by any of the survivors?
It sort of makes sense to me if only on a small scale, the actions of the bow section, tonnes of steel and tonnes of moving water, no idea of the dynamic variables for such a massive ship though.
First time have noticed this in the (oh crap) 40 years have owned this book.
Decided to drop a virtual protractor on John B Thayer's sinking diagrams, recorded as drawn by him from an overturned lifeboat.
Using original larger resolution file, started with his 1:40am diagram, note this is when John recorded Titanic splitting in between funnels 2 & 3.
His estimate split angle (take into consideration his current situation) was between 30 and 35 degrees.
John records that between 1:40 and 1:50 the bow half sinks causing the stern half reach approx 65 degrees.
I looked at first thinking "huh, John took some artistic license there and drew it as if on the other side", as no way on an overturned lifeboat would he be able to row around the massive hulk in 600 seconds odd
Zooming in on text, have recorded what John noted "STERN SECTION: PIVOTS AMIDSHIPS AND SWINGS OVER SPOT WHERE FORWARD SECTION SANK - 2:00AM
Has anyone else seen anything else regarding John B Thayer's claim? Was anything said during the court cases by any of the survivors?
It sort of makes sense to me if only on a small scale, the actions of the bow section, tonnes of steel and tonnes of moving water, no idea of the dynamic variables for such a massive ship though.
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Thomas Krom
Member
The sketches were made by Lewis Palmer Skidmore (his name is in the right corner) on-board the Carpathia. Thayer is known to have criticized the drawing after it was published in the newspapers.
Ok, thank you Thomas.
One now wonders why the Reader's Digest didn't do their due diligence in their claim of the drawings author.
IanMcD
Member
What to do, what to do. But can't interfere with events? That's too bad. I would everything I could to get the attention of the Californian.
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